For what purpose? Only reason they use rets is for certain soaks/mind controls that niche bubble can break freedom.can be granted by any paladin, only ret used on nyalotha was for ilgynoth mc mechanic
First off thats not even true. The best strat for ilg was noone gets mced after first 2. Having extra bops/freedoms/lay on hands is huge on prog. Your only source at these is usually hpallys a third one is great. Ret normally has the best burst during their cds on any fight before corruption at least. For example on mythic jaina the rets in limit and method did the most damage to jaina in her final burn phase which was a insanely tight check. When someone dies in a raid the rets doing the most damage in the raid for those 10 seconds which is also a huge plus. Ret also has some of the best burst aoe in game. Them also having immunity soak is massively helpful. All of these things add up and 1 ret is almost always worth taking. Why do you think the top guilds both run a ret and have all expansion. Also if you know how to play ret at the highest level they put up good numbers.
2 Likes
Most of the damage in nyalotha was magical so Bop was kinda useless and freedom was mainly for wrathion which meta clases dont need, and to put it simple a DH a lock or a mage can do ret job better cleave, aoe, burst consistent damage, utility mobility there raidbuffs there is no reason to play ret in world where combustion can do 1.5 the damage of other dps.
1 Like
Freedom was good on carapace, shadhar, wrathion. Bop was great on early carapace prog so people could aoe adds down in final phase quickly without snapping aggro/ its always good to help dps/heals who snap aggro like on nzoth. Again the ret passive plays a massive role as well as I mentioned. lay on hands is a massive life saver. You also completly ignored my comment about pre corruption gear. Corruption gear is the reason that mages burst so much higher as they scale insanely high off mastery digustingly. So again I’m talking before corruption gear/corruption gear is gone now. You have 0 knowledge/experience on this topic. I have no idea why your commenting. Do you think the top guilds run a ret for the fun of it?? When they are competing for world first.
1 Like
all right rets at best being mid tier its “ok” i grant you that but the fact is there ranged dps is never enough and the for melee dps there are other specs that provide more needed utility or better numbers if a guild can spare a space for ret thats ok but they have nothing to provide and thats my point.
you cna bring ret for lifesaving and extra mobility help, that said your raid ever needs any of those, and again all the utility that ret have holy have it and its better for a healer to use GCD as utility/emergency heals than a dps wasting gdcs.
as for defensives thier defensives are bad outside devine shield which is 5 min cd or you have to sacrifice a must have talent (2 horse charges) to reduce its cd.
pally self heal: selfless healers helps just a tiny bit every 4 big globals you need to use another global to do a crappy heal.
dh: walk arround grab souls + narutal leech + meta even more heals.
rogues: have natural leech/flask.
the list goes on and on there is nothing a paladin can do better than anyone as a dps spec and there is nothing he will be able to do in shadwolands that holy paladin cant, and prot paladin is now on the top 2-3 (depends on your perspective of logs) of best tanks so that makes a ret chance to get into a good mythic raiding group even slimmer.
im not saying the class its full trash(its close to that) im just saying its not worth having in a mythic raiding group thats all.
1 Like
You didnt even read my entire post. AS I explained in detail previously all the reasons bringing 1 ret is worth. You don’t even understand how they nyalotha fights work as you’ve proven over multiple comments. I also explained ret is the highest burst not “ok burst” not counting corruption gear. I even gave you an example from Bod. You also realize these rets in the Us firsts guilds play multiple classes at the highest level and they are still maining ret. So even if you ignored all my points which you are. Please explain why the best guilds competing for #1 world who only run the most optimal rosters brings 1 ret.
A holy and prot pally can’t do insanely high burst like ret. Nor do they do the most damage in raid for 10 seconds whenever someone dies like ret does. You also don’t bring prot pallys to raid unless you need to cheese mechanics like bwomsomdi and janna. Even in current slands Dk/Mw are better tanks then prot pally for mythic raiding just like right now. Prots will be used like they were in bfa on niche fights. I get that you don’t understand how ret works or wow in general but please dont comment on things you know nothing about. I also don’t understand why you brought up dh/rogue self heals comparing them to selfless healer. Rogues/dhs can’t heal others with those only themseleves. Ret on the other hand can. And It is far from a weak heal. It’s basically a healthstone that you can use repeatedly in a fight on other players not to mention how strong word of glory can be. I think I understand your issue now. When people don’t invite you and tell you it’s because your ret. They are just being polite. They don’t want to tell you that you’re bad. Even right now your stacking masterful but you have haste enchants and a haste gem. Your losing out on massive damage. You should do some more research brother!
2 Likes
Okay hear me out. I’ve been screaming about the fixes we need for Ret Paladin for a good minute as well…
But have you guys actually tried putting a build together with the conduits?
Some of these choices are Ret Paladin exclusive conduits, some are Paladin-wide, and some are covenant wide, but— a lot of these options directly address mobility and other issues of ours like survivability, look:
Mobility:
• Soulshape <<<< mobility
• Wild Hunt’s Charge <<<< charge stun
• Get in Formation
• Wild Hunt Tactics <<<< passive mobility
Survivability:
• Divine Call <<<<< WTF
^BRUV. Can we friggin talk about Divine Call? Max procs on Divine Call + Unbreakable Spirit means you could have like a 2-2.5min CD on Divine Shield. WTF
Also can someone clear this up for me, are we getting our freaking FEAR back? It says it affects HUMANOIDS
LINK: Turn Evil???
Problem with the post you have here is it’s restricted to being Night Fae… I for one wish the Paladin Night Fae ability to burn in flames.
Also to touch on the post you have of this stuff, it is irrelevant if the class doesn’t have it baseline without any Covenants/Conduits giving it to us. The way Blizzard has been going makes me feel… sick.
7 Likes
Uh… it’s not irrelevant for Shadowlands. It is entirely relevant for Shadowlands… lmao.
You should seriously check out the conduit system. If you don’t you’re doing yourself a disservice.
1 Like
Agree, if I ever play my paladin seriously in SL, I will guarantee you it will not be night fae, no matter what the numbers say.
2 Likes
Afraid not - the correct version is: “spell=10326/turn-evil” [Forum won’t let me post the full link]
As for the rest of your post: Notice that to ‘fix’ our mobility we have to take one particular covenant. The covenant mobility spell is something everyone gets, so it only helps our relative mobility vs other classes if they haven’t taken Night Fae (or Venthyr for the teleport).
The legendary’s improved CDs are nice and all, but Freedom is not the be-all and end-all of mobility, even with conduits/soulbinds and PvP talents (it’s purgeable among other things). Also, using it means not using a throughput legendary, and unless our base DPS is higher than other specs’ that means a DPS loss just to begin to compete in mobility.
The soulbind in question is the last one opened, so it’s simply not going to be available for the first couple of months (maybe three months?). So must we suck until then because it’s the only option?
Wind Hunt’s Charge is actually a nerf to mobility in many cases, and taking that path (which does allow a choice of mobility conduits at the next row) means forgoing a Potency conduit (so losing DPS). Get in Formation is a minor mounted speed increase. Technically ‘mobility’, but hardly a game changer. As for Wild Hunt Tactics - that’s a really weak and conditional Long Arm of the Law.
The overall effect of these is really freaking minor, aside from Soulshape, and they come at the cost of DPS. Of the soulbinds, I think Niya is is better for mobility actually - there’s a conduit slot you can use for mobility without a DPS cost.
1 Like
I would like if we kept Heart of the Crusader as a self-buff only that still increases our mounted speed, while if we activate the aura we grant that to everyone else.
Also, the conduit that reduces fear duration? Maybe bake a LITTLE of that into the aura baseline, and then the conduit boosts it up to where it does.
That way there is a use for it.
Also would love if Sanctity aura returned for Rets and then Martyr / Sacrifice returned for Holy.
1 Like
Excuse me sire firemages burst it’s higher than any class in game.curently look at.logs and sims, first off.
Secondly holy paladin have 2nd best healer dps buddy and dps in myth as a healer counts bring aura mastery a unique cd as I stated and any utility the ret has the other 2 have it.
Third are you talking about castle nyatra o nyalotha?
In which case in both scenarios you bring. A 100% 1 holy, rets are not mandatory.
Third “the people that compete?” Nyalotha race ended long ago what is on the ground right now is castle.whixh there are normal heroic and mythic raid logs.
You can check kalamazi channel on twitch/YouTube and find the logs on the description of their video ret is midtier dps both live and shadowlands beta.
There is nothing other pallys specs can’t do that the ret can and any top tier melee spec it’s better than ret.
It is what it is. You can’t fight logs you can’t fight sims you can’t fight the truth.
A 50/100 parses fire mage dps do more damage than a 70/100 parses ret pally.
In case you don’t know how parses work: when someone upload a raid log it compares your performance with your class against other people who did that fight, then It ranks you on a score based on your performance compared to the best player using your class.
There fore a “mediocre 50/100” mage it’s better than a 70/100 ret.
Just imagine a decent mythic raider with a fire mage? How will be the difference for some 80-,90 parses those “decent mages” beat the “best ret” because no matter if you are the best if your class is trash you are trash that’s a fact.
Say all you want but don’t cry when you see the reality of wow class balance and logs don’t lie good sir.
1 Like
Can you read at all or?
3 Likes
your entire post proved you havnt read any of my posts. Theres no point having a discussion when you wont even read or aknowledge what I’m actually saying. You literally didnt even read the part where I said before bis corruption as certain classes like fire mage scaled insanely well with full masterful more so then any other class. Which is why I explained this and brought up previous tiers as examples. Just a side note to correct you again. 2 holy pallys was ideal in bfa. Also you realize beta numbers isnt whats going live right which isnt relevant anyway. They do class tuneing last weeks of beta. But there is no point arguing with you. You didnt even read my previous posts at all. You know literally nothing about the game. Enjoy doing lfr in shadowlands.
3 Likes
I think most issues of viability can be solved with numbers tuning, but i must say Ret Aura feels bad… I get the aim, but i don’t want to “stance dance” in specific situations…
In PvE, yes, in PvP, no.
4 Likes
Sorry, can’t speak for pvp, i leave that to you guys.
Ohh, i know… Make Retribution Aura reduce all CC durations by 40% instead of what it is now.
So it’s basically:
Crusader Aura: mounted
Devotion Aura: PvE
Retribution Aura: dps PvP
Concentration Aura: healer PvP
Just a crazy idea, don’t judge me too hard.
1 Like
Final Reckoning gives us more frequent burst windows. This is a good thing as 60 seconds between drinks is much improved from BFA. Not perfect but it’s a step in the right direction.
AOE cap is not a Ret issue as it basically universal for high damage abilities without significant CDs.
Execution Sentence finally has a reason to be chosen and feels great to use.
Auras are pretty average and I doubt anything changes now. I hope when Paladin does get another pass these have some more thought put into them.
Mobility is still horrible, the horse sucks but what can we do other than continue to raise the issue?
Ret healing is literally numbers tuning not a toolkit problem.
Defensive talents. We just need a Magic DR option and Ret would be in a great spot.
Overall, testing on PTR Ret feels better than BFA, but mobility is still a serious problem that is neglected. Going into SL it’s bittersweet for Ret as it wouldn’t take much to have us in a great spot.
The shield of Vengeance breaks…WAY to easily…it is absolutely…“ew”, then WoG is BS.