Night elf fans did it again. Turning a good topic into another muh night elves whining echo chamber. Good job.
What a surprise in a topic that’s asking to take something away from them, blaming other fans for blizz’s writing and on top of that, make inflammatory statements like:
Forsaken aren’t even close to Trolls or Night Elves in that matter
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Blizzard took their home, their leaders and all their themes. I say it’s heavy enough to say blizzard wronged them.
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Sure, but that doesn’t make
any less wrong.
This thread brings us back to zero when it comes to acknowledging other’s grievances.
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Night elves will still be kicking butt in Ardenweald. Forsaken have essentially nothing left going for them.
Which would imply alot more got out than what Tyrande knows, but blizzard will keep it ambiguous.
They were going to release a quest for it at the end of 8.1 I believe, but never did for some reason. Look on wowhead for the quest: A new hope.
I haven’t looked up too much of what has been dug up beyond what was found the first few weeks. There probably is a long more now, but I’m trying to avoid some spoilers for SL.
They have a habit of coming up with half-baked ideas and smashing them together, see WoD.
Which is the problem in general I think more with the Alliance that it’s too human focused than all of the other races. Sylvanas represents the Horde more than she does, given she is the warchief, same with Aduin with the Alliance.
Which makes me wonder what they will do with Malfurion, probably swipe him under the rug until they need a neutral party again.
The whole Nathanos thing was weird, honestly. It felt like a dbz-off screen power boost out of no where, but I’ve had the feeling with Slyvanas for a long time now.
I wouldn’t put it past them.
I think the reason people are ruffled with the Night Elfs getting all this focus is because they are leaving the Forsaken with nothing but a leader they don’t want and a character that was inactive for years show up out of nowhere. It smells like bias.
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Night Elves are saving some of their people from the maw, the forsaken don’t need to do that because they don’t have their people in the maw. This is a very small part of Ardenweald, Vol’jin and Bwonsamdi are featured too.
If anything can be done for the forsaken, it’s giving them a new updated home and development of characters like Voss and introduction of new characters. Don’t cling to self insert characters and characters that use them as slaves, give them new interesting characters and give them proper development
Also give them a purpose other than serving Sylvanas and helping her reach her own selfish goals. Give them their own identity and make Calia go back to the Alliance.
Just because Forsaken have had it bad doesn’t mean we should make threads asking for things to be taken away and ask for other parts of the fanbase to be punished.
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Oh yeah, I didn’t say a handful, but you said “most” which is what I was taking issue with since there aren’t really any numbers or even estimates of how many evacuated, the only thing we go off of is the description of the inns being filled up and Tyrande saying “too few” night elves remain in the world. More storytelling without details.
Yeah, they were going to release it again in 8.3, but these were just datamined during both PTRs. It would be nice to get confirmation on when exactly they won it. But Tyrande not showing up for SoO 2.0 to fight Sylvanas seems to imply she was still fighting somewhere else, because (bad writing aside) why else would she not want a chance to kill Sylvanas?
Understandable.
This goes back to their storytelling without details, that are just more general ideas they could maybe use sometime later if they fell like it.
Oh exactly, they just write humans because it’s easier, this has been a huge problem with the alliance, at least the horde is getting more diverse representation that isn’t just orcs and their token friends.
But Anduin represents the humans and prioritizes the humans over other races, as a leader should, but he doesn’t represent the alliance the same way the warchief represented the horde, even if Blizzard is pushing to make this person with little life experience the face of the alliance.
Yep, pretty much, he will probably just go back to being neutral again. I really liked his short appearance in the darkshore cutscene, but at this point that is probably just going to be a one off thing before he becomes the voice of the writers “reason” to calm down “crazy” tryande.
But that’s the thing, the night elves aren’t getting focus, they should have had an important story since they were the victims of a genocide and lost all their land. But WoT was about propelling Saurfang’s story forward, all the night elves did was go to Darkshore in 8.1 and served no purpose in the BfA story after that, we don’t even know when they won the warfront or if they have Ashenvale back.
It seems the main reason for the night warrior thing in BfA was just to give the night elves a new cosmetic option to match the blood elves golden eye option, because the night warrior served no purpose beyond the intro scenario.
Then in the book the night elves have 3 or 4 pages total that amount to them just talking and not impacting the story and in SL so far it’s only a couple quests for max level questing in Ardenweld that is mirrored with Vol’jin/troll stuff.
The night elves aren’t getting much focus at all, and sure the forsaken could get better focus, but in terms of quantity for BfA the forsaken had way more than the night elves, and the night elves were the ones that suffered a genocide pretty much only to advance the story of a horde character.
The story is really bad for everyone, but complaining about the night elves when Tyrande might get the killing blow on Nathanos so he can move over to the shadowlands with Sylvanas is a bit too much when the night elves didn’t even get a win in the night warrior scenario, which was pretty much the only thing they did in the entire expansion where their lands were taken, destroyed and their civilian population was decimated.
This absolutely, the night elves story is pretty much about getting their civilian population they lost during WoT out of the maw, while the forsaken evacuated all their civilians before the fighting.
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Also the entire Darkshore questline wherein the third most powerful undead entity on Azeroth could not harm Tyrande, even when Valkyr were holding her down, eventually culminating in winning against the Horde.
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Essentially the Forsaken are more or less having to start over from scratch as if they are a new race that has just been introduced as playable, where we get to learn about the races (new) culture, (new) home,(new) leaders/ prominent characters, how they’ll now operate etc.
Idk bout you but…kinda feels like previous fans of the race are kinda watching what they like being thrown away, blighted, burned, and then resurrected as something new from the ashes.
I’m kinda shocked some people don’t see this, like look I’m upset about night elf’s also (night elf main for alliance toons) but I can also look at the opposite side that got it bad and say “They…they really need some hardcore love also” that isn’t just replacing what people loved with new off the mark stuff. (I can only see it as if they replaced Tyrande with Thalyssra or made her advisor to Shandris, I doubt many ppl would be happy with that)
It’s really weird also for ppl to be like “orcs, trolls, Draenei, Tauren etc. they’ve lost characters or homeland before and you don’t see them crying” and my response to that is yah…but none of those races have lost all 3 things before at the same time (as far as I’m aware) culture, major characters, home.
The forsaken are being systematically destroyed from within and being forcefully changed into something else, something that may just appeal to more alliance side players instead of the existing fans.
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Blizzard needs to Drop the Calia story and bring back Alonus Faol to the Forsaken if they want someone who truly understands the forsaken who wasn’t brought back by the boy wonder.
They should have the Forsaken reject her and reach out to Alonus faol to guide them. She should be upset by this after choosing the “undead” form, She should go to Turaylon and ask him to restore Lordearon to its former glory and bring their people home(the living ones) as a son of Lordearon.
Thus sparking a war with the Alliance as the protagonist. Eventually you could have Yrel come through with the Army of the light to reinforce them.
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I like Nathanos as much as the next guy but you’re pushing it hardcore with those choice of words.
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Bad choice of words on my part.
It might have been because of the backlash they were getting. Leaving Tyrande might have been because of the whole argument with Anduin, but that’s just my guess.
Which is why I find it funny that the Horde went from a warchief to a council and the Alliance went to blue warchief.
I’ll agree to disagree on this one. The forsaken to me feel like they’ve been left in the dust, compaired to the Night Elfs winning Dark Shore, getting the souls out of the maw, and solving whatever issue Tyrande is having with the Night Warrior.
Burning Teldrassil felt more like “look at this shocking moment!” than anything.
They can have the kill on Nathanos, as much as I hoped they would have him stop being Slyvanas’ boytoy, it might be for the best.
I agree with what Murroz said though, I just hope the Forsaken actually get some character with maybe some shady dealings on the side, but knowing blizzard they’ll take that too far as well.
If I sound like I’m coming off as bitter at the Night Elfs I’m not, I’m happy for 'em. I’m just tired of blizzard not giving other races that have needed closure for years none at all.
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That’s kind of my speculation as well, I’ll try to keep it short.
I don’t feel like they planned much else for the night warrior and were just going to add that victory cutscene, but they had so much backlash for how bad the 8.1 scenario was (and still is) they probably changed directions. They did change some minor things in response to all the backlash then, but once it hits the PTR it’s mostly too late and they usually change nothing.
If the night warrior was slated to be important, it would have shown up again in BfA to fight sylvanas or to fight the old god, but as that one dev said around 8.2 when asked why the night elves weren’t going to participated against Azshara saying “she got her revenge for the Night Elves.”, which kind of seems like they were saying “the night elves? that stuff is over”.
That is also why they added the dialogue too anduin in 8.2.5 when Tyrande didn’t even show up to fight Sylvanas, because nothing was planned for the night elves story in BfA beyond the pre-patch where they lose everything and the warfront scenario that doesn’t see an in game resolution.
Yep, but the blue warchief really started with Varian in MoP. They probably do that because it’s much easier to write, the author of Shadows Risings did a good job with the council idea, but writing something like that for all their interactions would be rough, so I’m guessing they will go back to a council in name only, with one prominent character call the shots.
Yeah, the forsaken were built around Sylvanas so I can see where you’re coming from, but the night elves didn’t even get to see the victory of Darkshore in game and that was suppose to be them striking back. Instead we only know they won it because of a question asked at Blizzcon, nothing actually in game.
But is it really good to have all your land taken away and your races population decimated so it could advance the story of an enemy? Does it feel good to have dead night elves raised so they can loyally serve their killers to continue to try to wipe out their people? The little bits the night elves did get in the scenario were just immediately soured, Blizzard didn’t even give the night warrior a chance to shine in that scenario.
But the “look at this shocking moment” is just another time the night elves are dragged out to be beaten up, like most of the appearances since cata, which is something that has worn on many people who like the night elves.
So I see you point, but I’ll have to agree to disagree on this point as well, because this extends to way before BfA as well for the night elves.
Oh yeah, I don’t think that you are bitter, I think a lot of people are rightfully upset with the forsaken story. I just don’t like when people try to talk about how good the night elves have it, when that is not the case, especially not in BfA.
Also tyrande killing Nathanos is whatever, I’m sure he is popping up again in SL and this is just his way of being transported there. This seems like it could be a way to maybe demonstrate the power of the night warrior (even though I don’t think killing him would be that impressive), since they absolutely failed to do that in the night warrior scenario.
But I guess at this point it’s just going to be about the oppression Olympics, who has it worse from what perspective. I think thought we can agree that blizzard writing has been extremely poor for the forsaken and night elves, who has it worse is probably going to be about which race you like better.
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Dude was being directly empowered by Sylvanas my dude.
Not sure how you would scale that then, since Sylvanas’ powers allow her to do virtually anything. Either Nathanos also as that power while empowered or he doesn’t.
If I had a gold coin for the amount of people we or others have beaten or killed that were empowered by someone or something I’d be able to seduce (Yes Seduce) the Dwarfs and Gnomes to switch sides and become honorary horde members.
Jailer > Sylvanas > Val’kyre > Nathanos
Elune > Tyrande
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Directly empowered, and yet he was still such a failure that she dumped him.
Valkyrie seem beneath Nathanos, but alright.
And just because there’s no one betwixt elune and tyrande doesn’t mean Nathanos isn’t the third most powerful undead on azeroth.
Sylvanas > Lich King > Nathanos
Huh. Did Elesa delete her Lystera alt? Odd that it vanished from the armory.
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