So Shandris doesn’t represent the Night Elves in any capacity?
You do realize there’s a difference between getting screen-time and development, right?
Is that why they’re still 100% capable of fighting off the Horde on their own? Cuz their race was wiped out?
The loss of a bunch of nameless, faceless, civilians doesn’t seem to matter much, does it?
So you’re also just going to make the same arrogant presumption as the other guy? For that matter, maybe Saurfang and Varian should show up too. I mean, since it’s the SL they’ll clearly bring up every single character they’ve killed off recently, right?
And pretending that they haven’t since received more narrative reparations than the Forsaken in that time is equally as idiotic if not more so.
How did her showing up develop the night elves? She doesn’t even really talk about Teldrassil during the war campaign. You could really replace her with any character and it would be the same.
Yes, and other than Tyrande getting black eyes, the night elves got no development and got virtually no screen time after being used as the plot device to kick off this expansion.
They fought some of the horde with the worgen’s help as well, but the horde wasn’t really there in any real capacity because Darkshore was a secure stronghold:
Most of the horde wasn’t even there, it was just some and the horde forces there were so few that they just went around to raise undead night elves to loyally fight for them. Another blow to the night elves.
Why wouldn’t he show up again in SL? Sylvanas with the Jailer control the Maw and that is where everyone is being sent. Saurfang and Varian could show up, but this is the death doesn’t matter expansion and I doubt they are going to not bring up Nathanos again.
The forsaken obviously have received far more development, you may not like it but the forsaken now have things like Calia, Voss and the undead night elves and them finding their identity after being a cult of personality around Sylvanas.
The night elves development for all of BfA was “Tyrande got black eyes” this was after their race was wiped out by the horde, they didn’t even really get to talk about that except to show up for the warfront in 8.1 and then are never heard from again until Tyrande yells at Anduin.
The night elves were literally wiped out at the start of the expansion and then forgotten. They thought so little about the story that Tyrande as the night warrior is focused on killing Sylvanas but she doesn’t even show up to fight Sylvanas in 8.2.5. Night elves in BfA were entirely an afterthought and were only wiped out so they could develop Saurfang and ignore the night elves.
I have to say, this is the sort of thing where you guys loose me. If a Horde leader shows up to kick off a warfront that centers around that race’s story and where there is scene at the end were that leader declares victory, I have no doubt that the take would be 100% different and the posts would be “look at you they did for the Horde”.
I know that you guy didn’t like the Burning of Teldrisil and I don’t blame you. (Few on either side did). But if the prepatch was centered around one race. And then one of the warfronts. And then you have a plot that keeps going back to the rift between that race and their faction. And the wrap up also gave major attention to that race. And their story is central the novel for the next patch. And their leader is also going featured in the next expansions. And who had one for the 4 zones in previous expansion center around them. Saying you have been “ignored” is a hard sell. I mean, what did the Dwarves get?
No one declared victory at Darkshore, the only reason we know the warfronts even had a victor was because of a question asked at Blizzcon. There is nothing about it in game.
But your scenario would be if maybe the orcs lost their civilian population, Durotar, Azshara and the Barrens and then they fought back in Azshara. But Durotar and subsequently Org were forever destroyed and the status of the Barrens was unknown, but then after they started the warfront they were ignored until Thrall shows up at the end of the expansion to yell at Baine and weren’t part of the story in any real capacity other than a reason for a warfront.
No it wasn’t. Night elves had like 3 or 4 pages total, even the scene with Tyrande as Thrall it was from Thrall’s perspective. The book was about Sylvanas, Talanji, Nathanos and Anduin it wasn’t about the night elves at all and the night elves weren’t “central” to anything in it.
Dwarves didn’t have a genocide committed against them and they didn’t lose all their territory. Dwarves weren’t just wiped out to make a horde leader sad.
For the record, the Night Elves lost civilian population only in their capital. The idea that another race would need to be depopulated all around the world doesn’t follow.
But the point here is that I understand being salty of Teldrassil, but this meme that you have been consistently ignore just doesn’t hold water for me.
They got the plot to specifically focus on them twice. (Thrall going to Nordrassil and them getting Sira.) The is more than any race by the Trolls. If you want to call that nothing, then you have lost me. How much did Dwarves, or the Dreanei, or anyone except maybe the humans, appear?
This isn’t an argument that Night Elves were ignored. Instead, it always ends up that they do get attention, but it is never enough because “Teldrassil”. Teldrasil pretty much ruined the expansion for a lot of people on both side. But, I keep hearing memes a long the lines of Blizzard always ignores the NEs. I just doesn’t stand up to me.
This is never in game, it was only datamined from the PTR. It was datamined back in 8.1 as well, but never put into the game and there was no quest to go along with it. This has been pointed out many times, I thought the fact this was never in the game was already known at this point. But I guess you linking this just makes my point for me, you are trying to use a non implemented cut scene and questline that doesn’t exist to pretend like the night elves had a massive amount of story in BfA.
The lost Ashenvale and Darkshore as well, Teldrassil was just what was wiped out completely, then obviously the horde goes through and raises more dead in Darkshore. But yes, the night elves were ignored in 8.0 completely and then only had the warfront scenario in 8.1 then ignored for the rest of the expansion. They didn’t receive “nothing but development” throughout the expansion, they were just wiped out in WoT to advance Saurfang’s story.
Yes, that is why I said they got about 3 or 4 pages. The Tyrande and Thrall part was just from Thrall’s perspective, but served no real purpose to the book or the next expansion. Tyrande’s part then to not kill Sira was also just a side story not “central” for the next expansion and not even central in that book.
Blizzard only drags up the night elves to beat them up when they aren’t ignoring them. They dragged them out to wipe them out at the start of the expansion, then they ignored them completely in 8.0. You are saying the warfront is a gigantic moment and you are trying to use a non implemented cutscene to make a point they weren’t ignored.
The night elves had a genocide committed against them and all they got were black eyes in 8.1. This wasn’t even a central point to the overal BfA story, that was taken by Saurfang, Sylvanas, Nathanos, Anduin and Jaina. Nothing for the night elves in the Daz raid of 8.1, nothing for the night elves in 8.2 where we fight Azshara who has been central to the night elf story forever, then after the warfront all we get is Tyrande being angry at Anduin.
Nothing even for the night elves for SoO 2.0 when Tyrande is now said to be focused on killing Sylvanas, but for some reason doesn’t show up to kill Sylvanas then. Seems like they really had nothing planned for the night warrior story then, or they just have no clue what they are doing with the story.
Then in the novel there are tiny cameos for Tyrande from thrall’s perspective and then when the horde capture Sira and send her to Stormwind. The night elves weren’t even involved in capturing her or playing any actual role in the book, but you are pretending they were central to the story.
Also Teldrassil is an entire zone, Darnassus is part of it. It’s just wiping out Durotar where Orgrimmar would be included in that. A lot of people seem to think Teldrassil is just Darnassus, which is not the case, it’s an entire zone with a major city inside it.
God freaking damnit, what a disgusting piece of crap dialogue / writting did Blizz present today? Yes, disgusting… I know “people” -coughcoughMHP/FNEcough- hated Nathe, but for the love of God!!, trying to force down Calia again through the Horde´s (and worse, the Forsaken´s) fanbase throats is literally like watchin someone take a dump live. Do we have to pull a Helfer esque QQ forums´crapstorm to prevent the NuSelf insert of Christie Golden from boycotting a Horde race and ruining ALL the racial leader characters of the Horde with baseless self insert w@nk or what? Wasn´t Baine enough, does Afriasiabi et al need to ruin Lor´themar too cause God Forbids characters don´t kiss the literal behind of Golden´s pet characters or what?
Look, I have no issue with Tyrande killing Nathanos, but for the love of God, someone who actually knows his/her way around an abecedarium at the minimum should point to the ignoramus in charge of writting the dialogue AND the Calia scene how this is the literal WORST way to “endear” BOTH characters to us Horde players. My respect for Lor´themar is starting to fade, and fade fast. I rather see him die by rando ghoul a la Vol´jin than see him become a clone of Baine but focused in “muh God Queen White Saviour Calia”. Such STUPID dialogue, I really can´t believe they insist with this even after our complains two months ago already made them devs CHANGE the pre-patch scenario positioning of the characters.
Calia Is a symptom of Golden’s writing, She is the character that Golden wanted in the story and pushed for her to be included. The reason is simple as Golden only likes writing Simps for Anduin.
So now you have Baine and Calia(and thrall however i expect he will bow out of the story again soon) being the most prominent characters in the Horde story and others either falling in line or being pushed aside.
Until Blizzard gets a new proper writer who understand the Horde fanbase and wants to write proper stories for the Horde you can expect more Shills for Anduin to pop up in the horde.
Dude, the way I see it if Afriasiabi / Golden / etc. want so much to take the Horde story and ruin (yes RUIN) it with their bland one dimensional self inserts, then they can start by paying my sub. Cause they´re literally telling me they will sell me a Bistec and serving me a Bone instead.
No seriously at this rate Horde players will deserve to get F2P treatment, my God!!
This is still part of the burning, but also it doesn’t say most citizens escaped. The only thing we have is Tyrande saying there are “too few” night elves left now in the book. In game you save about 3% of the civilians.
These are essentially all the same thing, you are just talking about the warfront here. For one Malfurion does nothing after the warfront cutscene and Tyrande is absent after her night warrior scenario in 8.1 where she needed Malfurion’s help to fight off Nathanos and still fail to stop him from accomplishing his mission.
Then from there until she yells at anduin at the end of 8.2.5 where she conveniently missed fighting against Sylvanas which is supposedly her singular goal. Tyrande and the night elves were also absent from the fight against Azshara.
Then Darkshore we don’t even know when they got it back, if they actually beat the horde, or the horde withdrew after the treaty. We know Tyrande doesn’t show up to SoO 2.0 so it’s likely she was still fighting the horde (or the devs forgot about the night elves).
Also wrong. The night elves aren’t even in the Ardenweld questing before max level. Then when you pick it Tyrande and Shandris are in like a third of it, while vol’jin stuff takes up another third of it.
If we are trying to count it up like you, the warfront was also forsaken based so the forsaken got as much as you would claim the night elves got there. They also had more development with Voss, they added the undead night elves to their ranks, Nathanos and Sylvanas were major focuses of the expansion. Sure you can say “well they aren’t horde anymore”, but they were horde. Obviously Calia as well even if no one likes that, this is all forsaken focused. I can keep going and even say things like the forsaken showed up more in the cinematics, night elves only got an appearance as three useless archers whose arrows only make Saurfang tired for a second.
But then this is more about people trying to claim the night elves had serious narrative focus, when they were just forgotten in patch 8.0 completely and only showed up for a scenario in 8.1 and the warfront that was mirrored by the forsaken. Only to have Tyrande skip out on fighting Azshara AND Sylvanas because they were totally relevant to the BfA story. Other than being the victims in the pre-patch, there was literally no point to the night elves story in BfA.
Not only that, we see that the night warrior power in SL was used on another planet to fight and help kill an old god, so it retroactively makes Tyrande’s night warrior even worse because she also skips out on fighting the old god in 8.3.
I think it was in War of the thorns that said thousands were saved thanks to Highborne mages.
Which is more on blizzard’s failings to show anything in game after the fact.
Which is again is a failing on blizzards part. I would have liked to hear more about the ruins from Shandris instead of Jaina.
It was confirmed they took back Darkshore.
The zone is linked to their Wild-Gods, their architecture is all over the place and the Trolls, who should have a decent representation there, are shifted to a hole-in-the-wall dungeon.
Who came out of left field, I don’t mind the development, but it feels rushed.
Also the Undead Night Elfs are currently being guided by to the Alliance thanks to the efforts of Calia for some reason or another.
So was Jaina and Anduin and they were Alliance.
Calling Calia a forsaken is like calling a Worgen a Vulpera. She was raised under different circumstances, knows nothing of the people she “wants to connect with”. You can’t even see her elbows!. Also do kindly point out the cinematics the forsaken have shown up in outside of when Sylvanas called them, and all the Horde nothing and the first one where they were at war. If you’re not count leaders that is, if you are then terror of darkshore did a good job of showing how vicious Malfurion can be.
Blizzards failings strike again.
There was no point to this war to begin with, it was just blizzard having a half-baked idea and shoehorning the Horde into being villains in a bad attempt at “morally grey” storytelling.
Which, again is a failing on blizzards part. But lets be honest here, how many more super-charged characters does the Alliance need?
I don’t think it gives any number of how many escaped, we only go off of them saying all the inns and the catacombs of the church were filled fill refugees. The only thing we get in respect to a number of night elves that are left is from tyrande.
They said at blizzcon when someone asked a question about it that alliance won both warfronts, but they didn’t say when. Was it before or after the treaty? This is never said or mentioned in game.
It also seems linked to the loa, but there aren’t even any night elves in the zone before the max level questing, which is mirrored with troll stuff.
Oh I know, and I remember people were upset when she was first revealed because they thought she was being set up to be a leader of the forsaken back in Cata. It’s as if this was all an afterthought for them, much like the little bit of story the night elves got after WoT was.
Nathanos and Sylvanas are specifically forsaken, Jaina and Anduin are humans and I guess we can split hairs and say Jaina is Kul Tiran. But yeah I don’t like Calia either, much like I hate the direction they are taking Shandris. But you can see it’s kind of their new way of writing where they want everyone to be nice.
The cinematic thing was just me getting petty, but when you compare it to what the night elves got it was night and day. Sylvanas get her warbringer, she is in the main cinematic, you have the forsaken assassins for sarufang, then you have Sylvanas killing Saurfang and the other forsaken there including the tink tink forsaken. Nathanos was in a lot of the cutscenes as well as being all over.
The darkshore warfront cutscene was pretty much the only cutscene with night elves in it, sure it was great to see Malfurion doing something for once, but he was in it for like 10 seconds, while most of it was about the horde and Nathanos.
Tyrande was always powerful, but how powerful are they when it took Tyrande with some extra super powers and Malfurion just to make Nathanos retreat but not before he completes his mission?
I’ll say it’s stupid when their powers actually have an effect on things, otherwise the night warrior power was just a reason to give the night elves a new customization option to mirror the blood elves getting golden eyes at the start of the expansion.
Oh yeah and I agree with you on a lot of the forsaken stuff, there was no real morally grey here and this was some of the worst writing blizzard has ever done (other than Thrall’s wedding and then ending a raid to get Aggra prego), and this is a good segue into:
Exactly. But all these failings are why people are upset with the night elf “story” in BfA and why it’s annoying when people say they had major narrative focus, when that is not the case outside of just being the victims in WoT and then a warfront that doesn’t even see a resolution in game a warfront that is just mirrored by the forsaken as well.