Revisiting: Tirisfal Glades

Ah its fine we pinned that on Garrosh and Sylvanas.

Drustvar is kinda a big example of why the Worgen struggle with the Alliance. I only turned in and received quests in human form.

Because the idea these provincial idiots who try to murder women with opinions would be 100% accepting of a foreign Wolfman just waltzing in and standing around completely snapped my sense of immersion in the story.

The Alliance just doesn’t like you if you’re more interesting than Hero McStrongjaw, generic white dude in armor.

Which is everything but gnomes and Dwarves as they’re short enough that you don’t see them first.

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This is mostly an andiun/jaina problem because the entire alliance, all races are religated to this single spokeperson who has to make peace and be nice.
Which seems really an insensitive and insane thing when considering Andiun and stormwind humans haven’t really been affected by whatever wrong doing that happened so they are not good spokesmen.

The real problem with the Alliance is that these many grievances are pushed into a closet and not allowed to be fully explored. Because we pinned it on one or two characters who Alliance never had a chance to take vengeance on any ways.
You are looking at a symptom and you think its the disease.

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got less than an hour left on current token, might not be back for a few days, weeks, or months. might as well post some of my thoughts here as anywhere else?

have been tooling around with my own imaginary ‘what if I designed an expansion?’ thoughts in my head- I’ll bet all of us here have. I’ve mentioned all these ideas before in other threads, so this should sound familiar to some people.

We would be exploring a new continent to the far south, long thin and shaped vaguely like a curving dagger, broken into three main islands of 2-3 zones each. The very southern end would be around Azeroth’s icy south pole where another titan facility and raid would be placed. The middle would be Australia with coastal port towns inhabited by Kul tiran and Zandalar sailors who got marooned over the centuries and a large hot dry desert interior with a Dreamtime inspired dungeon and raid. The hot wet swampy northern most area would be either Indonesia or Indochina inhabited by a peaceful naga civilzation. The main villains would be the leftovers from BFA, Azshara, Xalatath, and Helya, with Magatha Grimtotem being an early throw-away boss who dies in the first raid. It would just be like 2 patches, with a new zone and raid added each patch (‘New Zealand’ and a new Nazjatar-inspired underwater zone for the final fight against Azshara and Xalatath [just before the final battle Azshara betrays eats Xalatath for a power boost and becomes the True Final Boss btw])

The part that’s actually related to the thread topic- the version of BFA’s War Campaign, in between exploring the new lands we go back and defend/repair the old ones. Gilneas (and parts of Hillsbrad and Silverpine) is retaken by the nelf-worgen allies; Forsaken and Frostwolf orcs rebuild/resettle Ruins of Alterac. Tirisfal Glades itself is now a nominally Horde-controlled but techincally contested zone, the Ruins of Undercity becomes a dungeon filled with escaped Apothecary experiments. Silverpine redone ala Darkshore, just undead vs werewolves instead of undead vs nelves. On Horde side you mainly bounce around with all the various council members trying to shore up Horde holdings and try to make peace with understandably untrusting Alliance leaders. Allaince side we go full-blown GoT, including one of the new questgivers being an obvious Tywin Lannister expy who’s sick and tired of Anduin’s goodietwoshoes nonsense. Of course, he’s not exactly in it purely out of love for the Alliance no matter how much he says he is. He and Turyalon play off each other with the paladin being more honest honorable and straightforward- but getting nowhere because ‘Tywin’s’ more ruthlessly pragmatic plans are more resonant with the war-tired, vengeful populace who’s had to bear the brunt of the the incompetent Alliance leaders’ commands. ‘Tywin’ wants to start a new Horde civil war that will finally fracture it from within permanently, this time WITHOUT the Alliance being the whipping boy beforehand. You do black ops stuff getting into Horde territory doing assassinations and even false flag operations. In the end, he still loses, because people on both sides really do want to be HEROES, even the Horde, and he can’t imagine that people can act honorably WITHOUT acting stupid and Turalyon’s honorable if misguided efforts shown through with their basic honesty. He doesn’t die, he just doesn’t become de facto King like he hoped, and can still be used in future stories. In fact, many of the Horde forces he targeted really were the worst of the worst and deserved death, so in effect he ends up improving the Horde by helping them take out their own trash, something he was too cynical to understand.

There are of course many many more details in my head (Helya finally kills Odyn, who dies like Zovaal, confused that he isn’t regarded as a hero for all the bad things he did for ‘the greater good only I could see’) but the timer is at 9 minutes and counting.

Crap, I still have some auctions that don’t expire for a few hours, things in the mail stay for a full month, right? so I can come back in say 29 days and it won’t get deleted?

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Alex was apparently the sole architect of Teldrassil and the ruination of Sylvanas. Although I do recall he was the one who wanted to make Garrosh less monstrous, so maybe the Gilnean invasion was on Kosak.

Alliance is free to attempt any number of things that is not conducive to The Forsaken’s continued existence (it would be a genuinely reasonable direction), but the Forsaken and Horde are then free to resist those things. I welcome Team Blue being out for blood to some extent, with elements of dissent and in-fighting to boot. As things stand, virtually no one has enough of a fighting force to really accomplish much, so it would be great to see them beg Tyrande for help only to receive “I will give you the same assistance you gave me when Teldrassil burned—you can squat in our streets for as long as you require.”

If we’re just talking the Alliance marching up to Undercity and flattening The Forsaken… and that’s it? That’s not really worth bothering with.

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That would be amazing.

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If its one thing I have learned while playing through BFA is that Blizzard can’t do big battles well. If they are trying to make a Helms Deep or a Minas Tirith pitched battle it just won’t land as effectively.

If we are just talking about Worgen and Forsaken content, revamp the zones. Worgen fight the forsaken to secure their home in a one time event and then leveling content of both sides is basically spooky worgens/undead are raiding each others spooky holdings. Each side murdering each other in more and more creative ways but never really accomplishing the goal of conquering a capital city or wiping out a race.

The worgen already got their homes back and are actively hunting forsaken like animals and thats how it should be.

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I’m a big advocate for incorporating faction conflict storylines into seasonal PvP content. Keep it isolated from the expansion themes where the champions of the world and whatever factions are working to cast down new looming existential threats. Dust up some old zones to tell stories of modern conflicts (like, say, the Reclamation of Gilneas) or introduce new battlegrounds on occasion.

It would be a lot of dev resources, but I think it could pay off bigtime.

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Bit ironic.

A dog in a hat is still a dog, to quote Nathanos.

The problem with seasonal pvp content is that simply Alliance can’t pull its weight. When BFA first launched I think for for every Alliance player there was 10 horde.
Even in Battlegrounds I think I win maybe 1 in 7 games, whoever wants to play this game seriously has switched to the Horde and playing a competitive game requires a healthy population of players.

Jesus Christ.

I thought I was exaggerating for comedic effect.

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Seriously what even.

Ya can’t win a proper fight so you need the equivalent of divine intervention to make you feel less incompetent and cowardly?

What even is this request?

I pull plenty of wins on my Nelf bud. That shadowform is a S tier ability. You can dodge literally anything every 2 minutes.

Performance wouldn’t have any impact on the story being told. I’m just speaking about a narrative framework to explore faction conflicts from season to season. It would keep those elements ongoing and grounded in specific locales, instead of “DEAD WARCHIEFS, TREES ON FIRE, BurrrrrFHufwwhfhffshhhhhhh” bangs action figures together “CITIES EXPLODE” knocks over garbage can

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No? I just don’t think my progression should be tied to an activity I don’t want to do which is pvp. Alliance is a dead faction so most of what I do is solo pve content, because I don’t want tto deal with it.

I am just viewing it from pets, armors and other things we will have to farm. Winners get bonuses which will make their journey of farming for gear and other cosmetics that much more faster since the content is tied to it. If reconquering Gilneas was a pvp thing I doubt I would get through the front gate and it will take me 3 times as long to farm the gilnean gears/rewards.

Better to make it pve imo.
I doubt I would have ever farmed my warfront gears as fast as i did if I needed to beat a player team to get it.

So was I.
Eventually, they’re gonna get on your nerves with their “It’s okay when we do it” spiel until you’re Team Spite.

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Alright. So don’t stick your nose in the faction conflict. Was a mistake to drag you people into it.

You don’t enjoy it. You don’t understand it. And unsurprisingly your ideas about it are complete garbage.

I understand that Horde has become the hardcore playerbase and Alliance is the 1/5th player size compromised of just casuals.
And making rewards and progression tied to it is a bad idea. BFA warmode was so bad that blizzard had to bribe alliance players to participate in a rigged game.
And guess what it still didn’t work.

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There are already unique rewards tied to high end PvP. If you can’t compete, you don’t get the goodies. That’s how this game operates. But you don’t have to collect all of those things to participate in the story, there are basically tourist modes already. You don’t have to win at PvP to witness the story, and turning down the story because you demand the rewards for PvP is just a bizarre take.

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Pffft.

Well I can see you never turned it on. Because I had to make daring escapes from entire armies of Alliance.

Because I like WPvP. Even when ya lose, you can lose in style.

Clearly you don’t. So stop spewing nonsense ideas that would be a detriment to that already weakened gameplay all so you can have some pathetic sense of a victory you had 0 hand in.

You’re walking proof for why the main storyline should never touch the faction conflict again.

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I imagine its like wintergraps? I had a lot of fun then when both sides were equal but if I were playing wintergrasp these days I would be corpse camped as the timer ran out. If the story is tied to that then it can’t be experienced.
If the competition was equal I would be more interested in participating but now its like 1v10 and the other team has a hundred levels on you. Why try those odds?

Holy crap!

Wintergrasp is now a EBG. You can play it anytime with auto balanced teams!

Also you’re a mage! How do you get corpse camped? I’m a Priest and I’ve learned how to juke.

And gnomes get an extra CC break! You’re one of the hardest to catch!

What is this conversion?! You want Blizz to come ruin my favorite faction in the genre all because you’re too weak to get your own payback for decisions no Forsaken fan would’ve made?!

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