I think the last queue for an epic bg i was in was 3 hours long before I logged off.
lol I am sure.
I just play Arathi or WG when I want to level by pvping. I have more fun with that but end game pvp? lol never again.
First off how do I want to ruin your faction? Secondly how would payback against the players work for decisions outside of their control? I don’t understand your point here.
I really don’t even have a response here.
Do you’ve a max level character? Que for a EBG right now. Tell me it takes 3 hours.
And yeah sometimes the teams are skewed but I do main Horde. We get less healers just as often too. I’ve no idea what you’re talking about.
Edit: 10 minutes on my end at time of writing for a EBG que time.
Do you pitch a fit that Mythic Raids are too hard, despite the unique rewards therein? Do you need to farm those raids to experience the storyline?
I have no clue what seasonal PvP stories would look like exactly, as it’s just a broad concept at this point. It could be any number of multiple things. Could plug it into Warmode, maybe even just World Questing, develop new Warfronts and Battlegrounds (or just evolve Warfront tech so that both can support AI teams or Player teams or Mercenary Mode), whatever. The important part is that it would give a means of updating where the factions stand with one another, where points of conflict are arising, and reflect modern updates to the face of Azeroth (again, using the Reclamation of Gilneas as an example). Our alternative is more multi-minute snippets dripfed to us in Raids with 6-9 month gaps in between each update.
I stopped playing Shadowlands like 8 months ago. My highest is a level 57 mage on the Horde. All my Alliance characters are at level 50, I have zero drive to play them when I log in its like a ghost town.
edit: nvm one of them is level 53 but thats due to profession leveling.
Most of my pvp and active playing was back in BFA and that is the experience i am relaying to you now. From all accounts Shadowlands has not improved things so I doubt things got better.
I am hoping the alternative is world revamp and those areas become questing zones. Thats where Blizzard writing really shines.
If you PvP that rarely then why do you care about the faction conflict?
It’s literally only there to justify PvP. Shouldn’t you be thrilled the storyline has moved away from something you dislike then?
This is just asinine. You’re asking for an expansion’s worth of material devoted to handing you nothing but auto wins just to get some sense of satisfaction from the misery of others.
Seriously I feel so bad for Night Elf fans because they had their fantasy pretty thoroughly trashed. I especially feel bad for Nelf PvPers because the War of Thorns handing you such a destructive auto loss was miserable. It didn’t matter how hard you fought, Teldrassil still burned.
And your idea of good content is do it to more customers? For what?
I care about it as a questing and narrative presence. When cataclysm was happening almost every zone was a conflict and I didn’t have to do a single BG.
At Legion? Sure but then BFA happened because Blizzard wanted to tell another Horde story.
I just want that story thread concluded, in BFA we concluded it for the Horde player with all the old soldier stuff, the rebellion and then we dedicated an entire expansion following Sylvanas and her “justifications” for BFA.
I don’t think its unreasonable to demand that those storys be finally addressed. And yes it will and probably should impact the Horde player as the NPC horde faction gets its due consequences.
???
The Forsaken’s story thread from all that is pretty God damn unconcluded. Most of my OP is about that.
And your suggestions have been nothing but them either being further destroyed or utterly reworked. The Nelves thread is better wrapped up.
Not well. But we know Tyrande’s fine and the lion’s share of the dead from Teldrassil were brought to heaven. So, about as happy an ending that could have even if it was told in a hilariously inept fashion.
The only race worse off at time of writing is the Worgen, and I’ve offered an adequate suggestion to how fix that for both.
I’d have the Forsaken and Worgen having an uneasy truce in Silverpine. Fighting the Scarlets who want to exterminate them both. And that necessitates working together against a common foe.
Ya know old enemies coming together against the threat of a merciless mutual enemy. Garnering respect for eachother in the trenches and some of them wanting coexistence to be possible?
There was this really popular RTS called WC3 that had a story like that and I’m okay if this game steals that part.
But at the same time we could have factions of the Forsaken and Worgen, I’d say the Bloodfang and RAS, squaring off over Fenris Isle and Alterac City in a EBG and BG respectively.
Yeah, except I dont buy that they planned it that way. The devs we have are just too cowardly to follow through with any kind of vision.
That said, Saurfang as the old soldier was a better story than Vol’jin the righteous rebel. I like Vol’jin better. Vol’jin is more of a horde hero. But Saurfang is the more relatable character. I can empathize with him more deeply and the social commentary of the old soldier is more provocative.
But we didnt. Clearly that was the plan, but they didnt even touch on that except in the Sylvanas novel, because (I think self-evidently) they had to rewrite those motivations. I think they rewrote it because of the sentiments behind this quote. Even though they didnt do the thing, the criticism they knew would happen happened anyway. Imagine if Sylvanas was right all along?
The forsaken are exactly where the NEs and Worgen are right now.
They still got killed but now they go to a better afterlife. The forsaken in contrast are just as homeless as the surviving NEs… however many are left.
Just as the worgen who managed to evacuate and are now, also homeless.
The only thing that the Forsaken do not have now is a real leader and Calia is a contender which you don’t like because she is far too different than the current forsaken.
Its not my place to tell you thats wrong or not, I just think maybe give calia a chance?
After what the Forsaken did? And since then have done absolutely ZERO to justify it? Why?
I am not a fan, sorry. It just seems another long step in a series of steps that would further destroy whatever the Alliance has left. There is absolutely zero benefit in making these races get along and completely abandon the many, many legitimate grievances these that Alliance has with the Horde because as always Blizzard things its cool that Forsaken or Orcs blow things up.
Horde problems.
Tbh as someone who played
What’s weird is her one very salient criticism is, far as I can tell, never actually addressed.
So Sylvanas did indeed identify a systemic flaw correctly. It’s her plan to solve it that was the dumbest God damn thing I’ve ever read in this franchise, and I include it above “Varian TwoWolvesInsideYou Wrynn” and “The Sunwell Is An Anime Farmgirl Dating A Dragon”.
The reason Sylvanas trusts the Jailor and launches a sustained campaign of mass murder against everyone, her own people included, is because she didn’t let herself doubt.
That’s it. Thats the reasoning. That’s the secret.
Seek psychiatric care if you want these people writing something as skubtastic as a faction war storyline next.
In isolation, yeah, but not as a whole. That’s usually my take on most of the cinematics, and even some of the story beats—they’re not bad in isolation, but the series of events that got us to those moments leaves them snakebitten.
Vol’jin and Garrosh having their showdown was foreshadowed and part of the ride. Vol’jin always hated Garrosh and made it plain. Garrosh was always a warmongering brute that kept escalating the aggression (with the exception of Stonetalon, which was admitted to be a miscommunication/mistake). There wasn’t a point where I felt like Vol’jin or Garrosh were fundamentally different characters in their arc, just stakes being raised until the conclusion. Except for Garrosh forcing his troops to accept Old God corruption, given that not repeating Grom’s mistakes were central to his character, and doing so himself (and no, I’m sorry Blizzard, but you don’t get to swell him up to a 5-story tall orc with purple skin and EYES GROWING OUT OF HIM and then claim he was not corrupted) but that’s another story.
I don’t want to rehash this too much as I’ve vented on this too many times in the past, but the tl;dr is that Sylvanas post-Legion was not the same character and Saurfang was a depressed coward who whined a lot about honor and the Horde but never followed his convictions when it would have mattered most. He’ll death-charge the entire Alliance army but won’t take a swing at the Warchief nobody liked, wanted, or trusted because … reasons? Ditto for Baine. Ditto for our characters. If Sylvanas is strong enough to solo the Horde, she didn’t need to deceive the world into killing themselves for soulfood, because she could have just done it herself.
Why is it never the fans of these factions ceaselessly arguing with me, then?
I’m pretty clear on how I want the Worgen and Nelves to win. We can all win. That’s a possibility.
I don’t care about people who insist people must automatically lose so they can even some imaginary score in their head.
I’m happy to lose to the Alliance. I’m happy to lose to the Horde. But only if I lose. The game just deciding you do sucks. It should stop doing that.
I don’t understand why this is controversial.
And…
I kinda both agree with.
I think there should be a mutually horrible treaty that neither side really likes, made for big brain reasons by outsiders. Both sides should be dealing with scarlets, but also fighting one another, the way faction conflict was handled in vanilla through wrath.
“While youre out dealing with the Scarlet buffoons, Mawthorne, would you mind dealing with a feral dog problem? The Gilneans have been sniffing around our plagueworks and we can’t afford any more setbacks. Use this torch to smoke the mongrels out. Treaty or no treaty, we will run the worgen out of Silverpine!”
I think Afrasiabi was originally right, that she was. I just think we weren’t supposed to understand that until SL… then they scribbled that part of the story out and replaced it with Sylvanas the submissive waifu. It was weird.
Alliance lost what it did. And its unfair if Blizzard takes something further away from Horde players to somehow make me feel “good” which it won’t. Blowing up some mud hut village or a dilapidated township in northern lordaeron would not achieve anything.
Nothing the Horde characters do will correct things and nothing the Alliance does to the Horde (safe for their total dismantling) would ever make up for Horde’s long history of crimes.
So what is the solution? What is the win?
NEs/Worgen take back their home, rebuild/revamp and KICK. THE. HORDE. OUT.
No more shared cenarion circle, dalaran, silverhand, etc. No more cooperation between the races or leaders. enough. Lets all just keep it super simple and just hate each other. Keep everybody separate.
The reason why its controversial is because you’re basically asking for the worgen in this example specifically pretty much ignore their entire founding many grievances that shaped their past and major characters all so that Horde players could have a cool worgen sidekicks alongside their undead pals in lordaeron.
Nothing good has come out of rule of cool in our stories. I don’t think this is any different.
Yes this is a good idea reminiscent to the old days of leveling.
One of the reasons I can’t bring myself to play Alliance characters anymore is that as a faction, everything has been thoroughly destroyed. I just can’t get into it.
Much like The Jailer being behind everything, even Afrasiabi deciding years later that Sylvanas really was other thing all along doesn’t hold water, and there are too many inconsistencies with her depictions and sometimes straight up inner monologues to buy into that. But I do agree there was a huuuuge shift in direction once he was gone, and that shifted direction was probably even worse storytelling than the villainous shift he introduced. I also think it was pathetic to drop that flaming sack in Golden’s lap and expect her to stitch together something to retroactively explain this mess, as if it could be explained by anyone.
They would have been better served by just writing an apology, explaining the behind-closed-doors circus that was going on, and moving past the debacle. But Christ, they’re trying to stand by it. Why?
I agree;
I’d have the Scarlet arrangement be more like the Nelves and Belves outside of Suramar.
Stink eyeing eachother but there for the same reason and through the course of this story, hope is given for a better tomorrow as there’s a begrudging respect earned and even a few genuine friendship made in the course of this war against the Crusade.
Then out in Fenris Isle and Alterac City we’ve all out war between Worgen and Forsaken.
I’d actually revisit the urban bg idea from the sceapped Gilnean EBG idea. But I’d make it a smaller 12 on 12 arrangement so choke points require some coordination to become impassable hellscapes of overlapping AoE.
And Fenris I’d make a simplified Wintergrasp. But I’d borrow some elements from the Warfronts.
The siege weapons are NPCs you protect and repair, because just firing at a wall or tower isn’t all that interesting. And instead you take control of hero units.
I’d have a Banshee and Harvest Witch (Human Gilnean woman in witch outfit on a flying broom) as airborne healers and debuffers.
Abominations and Gentlettin (Ettin wearing a giant enchanted tophat) as heavy bruisers you can charge into combat with.
And Lightslayers and Feral Alpha as basically super rogues with AoE stuns. Easiest to kill but can off one player easier, CC a bunch and disappear easily if not focus fired.
Obviously not a game designer but idk. Sounds cool to me.
I know you didnt want to go into it, but I genuinely believe that Sylvanas was consistently written from Legion to SL prepatch, with a planned consistent narrative. That there were some actions that seemed like inconsistencies, intentionally, but were meant to be revealed as completely consistent with Sylvanas character during SL exposition. But also, I believe that as they began rewriting the narrative they inserted inconsistencies into BfA… without knowing how they intended to tell the SL story, I cant really say what was an aftermarket inconsistency, and what was part of the original intent.
What I do think clears up a lot of BfA is the theory that the Primus would have been the jailer and Sylvanas was aligned with the Jailed. If the Primus was aligned with Denathrius, Muehzala and Thros— and Sylvanas, Helya and Zovaal were rebelling against the system that created the Valkyr, the Scourge, the Legion, that killed Varian and Vol’jin, that dominated and corrupted countless souls across the cosmos… yeah, I think Sylvanas would kill a bunch of people for that. I think she’d argue she was doing the right thing. I think she’d manipulate everything to distract the Ebon Blade so she could get the helm of domination and break it, while declaring herself a hero sent to free us all.
In the absence of that story, none of it makes sense.