Actually Genn Greymane and Turalyon have already stated this as the likely scenario. Greymane at the end of Shadowlands feels that the Horde is just as complicit, but the Forsaken are especially at fault. Now the idea that “might makes right” foreign policy isn’t something people like to hear or that the “to the victor goes the spoils.” Lore wise and as a manner of foreign policy the Alliance has no reason to trust the Horde status quo and the Horde council and dissolution of the Warchief position was done as a way to mitigate Alliance list of demands.
Lilian Voss even stated this is the reason why she chose to be interim leader and representative for the Forsaken in the Horde council. They know that Calia Menethil’s presence as a liaison and likely future leader to the Forsaken within an interim government setting or as a figurehead will dissuade the Alliance from saying, “Undead are ALL bad.” Nuance is key and in diplomacy like the in the real world may not always result in our favor or in terms we enjoy hearing.
When Horde and Alliance players use their meta knowledge and their biases to justify their position that Calia Menethil cannot be ruler or that no actual in-game character would accept the Alliance’s demands and the Horde won’t acquiece missed the whole book and where the narrative is going. (This is Blizzard’s fault terrible choice in telling the story)
The Horde, if they are to rebuild their faction and the Forsaken nation as a whole, have no choice, but to react within the confines of the current story. They need Calia, if for no other reason as a cooling force within the narrative.
Oh please. Who cares what Genn thinks. The Alliance aren’t allowed any wrongdoing. To the point where they just come off as idiotic.
The idea of punishing the player base for the nearly universally reviled actions of CDev would be completely suicidal. It’s in their absolute best interest to attempt to reset things to their old standard and move on from BFA and SL in a hurried fashion.
Fix up Tirisfal, regrow Teldrassil then we’ll all just agree to never speak of this again. Just like WoD.
Why would Genn Greymane or Turalyon grumbling have any bearing on The Forsaken being part of the Horde? Warchief was not dissolved to placate the Alliance, but because Thrall is allergic to the idea of leading again and the position got used as a scapegoat to hang their selective burdens on instead of dealing with the fact that they all /AFKed every time there was an easy opportunity to stop Sylvanas.
Turalyon came to terms with Alonsus and is Supreme Commander of Team Blue, so Calia being the only hope of presenting The Forsaken as not inherently villainous is pointless. Plus, “she’s one of the good ones” gets into really yikesy territory. Plus plus, as mentioned before, she isn’t Forsaken.
I’m not saying Calia cannot be ruler—I actually dread that is exactly what is about to happen. I’m saying it would be another chapter in this team’s myopic writing style that seems spiteful to the IP they’ve inherited. I’m saying it is stupid to give us 2 full expansions of inexplicable narratives that make no sense, were clearly not thought out, that ruin vast swaths of lore, then turn around and say “well, we can’t write the story in a way that serves the fans now, because that wouldn’t make sense to the story.”
At this point, I think every current and prospective dev should be required to finish WCIII, tFT, and finish every starting zone experience in Classic so they understand exactly who and what they’re selling down the river.
I suspect the low level employees grasp the themes and are passionate about the setting and races (I can’t imagine anything other than for the love of the game applicants roll in at this point given the culture and undercompensation). The sorts of people who seem to only get turned loose on questing content and the like. That’s where we tend to encounter things like the Forsaken troupe in Nazmir.
It tends to be the top down decisions that leave me dismayed, mostly that someone is given such a bloated salary to actively destroy Blizz’s cash cow. I can’t reconcile someone that is genuinely a fan of the game(s) getting so much so wrong, I guess.
am I a sucker for still mainly hoping that they’re just incompetent to tell a story their customers want to hear (and at the very least it IS fair to note that you honestly can’t please everyone at once), or are simply wracked with the aching NEED to only tell stories about purehearted humans, sad elves, and the evil wicked orcs and undead who afflict the first two to the piint they can’t help themselves, rather than deliberately spitefully ruining their own product?
It’s the fact that CDev says SL was a good story that worries me. It’s over already they don’t have to sell it.
Simply going;
“Hey, this whole storyline got dropped in our laps. We were doing this during a pandemic and a 100% justified but nonetheless chaotic upending of management and work spaces. We know it’s not great but under the circumstances it’s the best we could do”
Would make me considerably more hopeful. Pretending this wasn’t crap even by the often stupid and cliché standard of WoW storylines is extraordinarily concerning.
I would have previously assumed that they know and aren’t allowed to say anything negative for the purposes of not damaging the brand, but Ion has been off the leash in several interviews lately.
Keep in mind SL got multiple people who’d played since Vanilla to quit. 15 years of being a reliable customer and they were out. YT channels that exclusively covered WoW as a business model had to hastily pivot to covering other games just to stay afloat.
This was an unmitigated disaster. If the plan is to just smile and pretend there weren’t serious lessons to be learned from this abject embarrassment of an entry that tarnished the brand then they’ve completely lost their minds.
Voss uses black magic, dirty tactics and clearly delights in murder.
Her caring for her people, honoring good faith promises and generally being basically reasonable are not strikes against her. Far as I’m concerned she’s the gold standard for how to write good aligned Forsaken characters.
She isn’t an overdressed simpleton who’s powered by sunshine who cannot fundamentally relate to the Forsaken.
Voss has been an interesting character but they run the risk of wrecking her by using her as a calia mouthpiece or bridging mechanism. Forsaken need more indigenous voices.
Whats Darnell up to?
What has Deathguard Dillinger got to say about Forsaken Chapter 3.
Whats RAS got to say?
Dark rangers?
Queens guard?
i´ve enough of this kind of bs you are arguing here, no, the horde (Factin as a whole)had no paid the deb for their deeds, no, it should not be an hordeplayer the hero of Ardenwaeld, no, this wouldn´t be a fix. Ardenwaeld should have not only ONE hero, for the trollstory i see a troll, for the night elves i see a Night elf. You don´t want to be made responsible for the WOT, okay, fine, but the way you would want to throw the night elf com under the bus is really moronic
Again, you’re letting your meta knowledge of the game form your opinions. In game there is no reason for the living people within both the Alliance and Horde to trust the Forsaken. We just went through the Shadowlands and discovered most of the souls of people who died in the Fourth War was sent to the Maw. Most of them are olbliterated.
Imagine you, a citizen of Ogrimmar hears this. A peasant in Stormwind. What do you do? Well, who led the Horde who caused this? Sylvanas. Who was the most fervent supporters of this leader? The Forsaken. There’s no reason post Fourth War to allow the undead within the Horde to have free range over their internal affairs, without some serious oversight and calming individuals at the lead.
In real life just like in WoW the international policies of nation-states is to present the defeated nation with choices they may not like. Like how the USA treated Germany post World War 2. After the Holocaust. People forget how the Germans were made to give up their form of government. Entire society had to be watched under a microscope by the Allies. Only after years of them rebuilding their society as a democracy in the West and years of them apologizing did they finally get to become leaders within the European Western alliances.
In WoW we have a similar situation with a race of undead people who committed genocide three separate times. Once in Gilneas, again at Pyrewood, Hillsbrad and Southshore. Lastly at Teldrassil under the leadership instructions of Sylvanas Windrunner. The entire narrative and their actions in the previous war. Means they are being hauled in front of their allies and watched liked hawks by everyone. Horde leadership did this before after Wrathgate. Remember the Orc guards around undercity? They aren’t being given the leeway and would you expect the Horde and Alliance leaders to provide any? After what they have done several times in the last 15-20 years?
So, again, Calia Menthil, is the perfect candidate within the Forsaken leadership because she has A) Legitimacy B) The approval of Voss as interim leader C) Calming force within the surviving Forsaken as seen in the end of BFA. D) She has the approval of the Horde and Alliance because of her sentiments and opinions.
The average Forsaken may not be happy of the situation, but provide her the opportunity within a Desolate Council government where she merely acts as a figurehead and chief representative before you judge. The Forsaken are just now getting Tirisfal while the Alliance and Horde watch with spies at every corner. Turalyon and Genn are aching for a reason to eliminate them and the Horde isn’t likely to throw more lives away at yet another war to protect the race that sent most of their nations soldiers to the Maw and got obliterated in the process after they committed genocide several times over.
The Horde is being treated like a defeated faction by Tyrande, Greymane as well as Turalyon who by their in-game comments disagree with your assertion. The ceasefire is only agreed upon with tentative assurances. The Alliance meta wise can’t ask for the dissolution of the Horde or Forsaken faction, but in-lore, the Horde, and especially the Forsaken are being treated like a defeated state. Exploring Eastern Kingdoms and Shadows Rising gives us an idea what’s going on.
If it wasn’t for Saurfang’s rebellion we would not have the assurances we have today. Anduin along with Alliance leadership worked with Thrall and the Horde Council to ensure that moving forward the Horde can never rise up again and commit the atrocities of the Fourth War or the previous Horde-Alliance War under Garrosh.
