Neither one of you has enough data to say what the “vast majority” do or don’t.
The 480 geared player could be there looking for transmogs for themselves as well.
Depending on the tier, there can be certain items that even LFR level are better than alternatives at much higher item levels. You had a lot of heroic and mythic raid geared healers going into LFR last season for Rashok’s Molten Heart because of just how broken that trinket was for healing.
Any item that the 480 geared player already has from raid that doesn’t drop with a socket/tertiary cannot be needed by that player even if they want to. They may not press “pass” because greed/mog would still be options for them. but they wouldn’t not be able to win the item against anyone in the raid who does select need.
I can understand the perspective, even if I share your and Snoz’s premise that people largely just need to accept that you win some-lose some with loot.
If I set foot into LFR for a trinket off the third boss in the wing, but the game gave me a belt on the second boss, there was no intent on my part to win the belt. It’s foolish to assume I was there for any given item like the belt and I had no agency in the matter to decide whether to forego my chance at the belt on the second item, the game just decide it was mine. Whereas with group loot, in order to win the belt over anyone who hits need, I have to declare intent on the belt specifically, that plausible deniability evaporates.
There are several advantages to PL. From what I’ve read, not all, but most people who are opposed to it are people who in some way take advantage of (not in a good way) GL, therefore, do not want to lose that. When I see people like that grasping at straws, I just stop replying.
Indeed there are. It’s just that unfortunately there is a subset of GL zealots who just outright refuse to see the objective truth that is both PL and GL have their pros and cons. No loot system is perfect. The fact that these people simply cannot acknowledge that there are certain circumstances where PL was superior to GL is just sad tbh.
Again, that’s not to say it’s overall better. But exactly what I said. Pros and cons. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Under PL, the intent to get anything that drops for you off each boss is declared when you queued/entered the raid IMO.
You may not intend to keep other stuff, and you might be able to give something away that you weren’t specifically after, but you can never go in choosing not to compete for stuff at all.
GL has more protections built in than PL does. If that’s what you’re hearing and believing, it sounds like you don’t understand how it works.
There are no advantages to personal loot. Idk why people keep insisting on it given how Blizzard already explained how PL worked when they decided to change it.
Basically personal loot is a farse, the real name should be “All Need”, everyone rolls on the item automatically and are distributed without any Loot UI.
So basically the items that you are losing during LFR you would have lost them anyways, you technically have a higher chance at winning in the current system than in the old PL system since there are many people who simply can’t roll on items or also won’t roll because they have the option to pass.
Before someone says anything about trading, remember that most people who would pass on an item in Group Loot wouldn’t trade an item they got during PL, the original behavior most pugs had was to simply not loot the bosses and have everything be mailed to them so they weren’t bothered by a hundred whispers.
I’ve stated this but when someone sticks their fingers in their ears and say “nope”, I just walk away. No point in debating with anyone being closed-minded. Complete waste of time. They have no intention of seeing anything past their own illusion. Akin to someone who tries the “Change my mind” when they go into it with zero intention of having their mind changed. They’re just seeking an argument to argue.
I think they know, they just don’t want to believe it. It’s akin to those who say “He’s not my President”. Well… he is, doesn’t mean you have to like it. Aside from the advantages I’ve mentioned before, you hit the nail on the head. Kicking someone who can wear something before a boss so there is less competition, I’ve seen more than once. The last time was during a TW event.
Correct. We’re all entitled to our opinions. No point in back/forth with anyone who can’t accept that.
There isn’t. The only point you can actually make is that peoooe can win multiple pieces off a boss but that’s such an entitled position I don’t really care.
Everything else you’re wrong about.
Because it’s actually wrong.
Name them.
There isn’t a way to take advantage of group loot.
Probably because you can’t actually refute the very valid points.
Anyone who actively supports grouploot has zero understanding of how the system actually works.
Also most complaints about GL would not be fixed by PL.
There is. Once again, you simply refuse to acknowledge it.
No. I am right. You are wrong.
I did. But clearly you didn’t read the post you originally repsonded to. For example:
and:
Those are 2 examples I can think of. Now you might say 2 is not many. But in my experience, the former is actually kinda a huge deal. Or at least it was for me and for the raids I was in. As to the latter, I haven’t experienced it myself but I have seen several threads raging about it on GD. Since you clearly do not know GL as well as you think you do, let me educate you. Under PL, you could get kicked from a raid but if you had tagged the boss, you would still get credit for the kill and if you had gotten a loot drop, it would get mailed to you afterwards. Something GL does not do.
Next time, please actually read the post you are responding to before responding to it. It saves me from having to repeat myself. Thanks.
This is ironic considering it is obvious you know no where near as much about PL v GL as I do. A bit of a cake on your face moment, really.
Not everyone will agree with that mindset, though. I ran LFR a bunch last season fishing for Rashok’s Molten Heart; I could not have cared less about what dropped off Assault or Zskarn or even the other items off Rashok. My decision to join the raid was not dictated by the ability to get items off those other bosses or any other item off Rashok. I’m sure some people would say my intent doesn’t matter (or assign intent more universally), but I also know some would agree that having no choice but to accept the potential to get any other items along the way wasn’t really part of my thought process.
This gets back to the entire agency argument. I have no choice but to compete for an item off every boss I kill. It’s certainly one of the biggest knocks against PL (and to be clear, I’m not arguing in favor of PL here). I suspect many of the people arguing for PL to return do understand that someone who is higher geared in a particular slot but is after an item in a different slot has no say in the matter, and that will make it feel different than when in GL and I have to select need on that specific item to have a chance to get it.
Except that you also selectively choose not to engage with the people who do understand GL and PL each have pros and cons, such as myself. A lot of people misrepresent how PL worked and how GL works today, and when I try to correct those misrepresentations I get lumped into the same bucket of people who will try to argue that PL had no merits and is inferior in every way to GL. What is most frustrating is that a lot of people who advocate for PL focus on things that would be worse under PL than it actually is under GL.
Just because you say “there is” doesn’t actually make it so.
No matter how many times you say it. It just shows over and over you have a lack of understanding of how both systems work or you’re just trolling.
No you aren’t.
That wasn’t even directed at you.
PL had the worst toxicity about whispers asking for things rofl. Denial
You’re two examples are bad examples.
1: loot toxicity was even worse in Pl. they actually made addons for people to auto whisper people asking for the loot they won.
2: that isn’t actually a thing because if you tag the boss and it does you’re eligible for loot
So no your examples aren’t actually examples.
quote=“Trustlvlfour-zuljin, post:175, topic:1778005”]
This is ironic considering it is obvious you know no where near as much about PL v GL as I do. A bit of a cake on your face moment, really.
[/quote]
Yet both of your examples aren’t actually valid ones
Once it’s clear someone is being disingenuous, trolling, or arguing for the sake of arguing, or being deliberately uncivil for no reason, I quit replying to them. Not wasting my time with nonsense BS. Outside of that, I’ll gladly discuss nearly anything with anyone.
The only comment I had from you was in another subject on trinkets, so I’m confused.
No it doesn’t. The fact that I actually gave you legitimate examples does. The fact that you still are running around with fingers in your ears about this shows that it is you who are the one who is actually trolling here. About a topic you clearly know nothing about.
Yes, I am. Get over it. I cited examples to which you are still ignoring proving that fact.
What? You quoted me…
Was there a rule somewhere about not begging for loot with GL is impossible? I must have missed that meeting that somehow magically made GL immune to that.
Fact: Under PL, you could not loot the boss and have your loot mailed to you thereby hiding your loot drop from the raid. Fact, this made it impossible for others to loot beg since they didn’t know you got a drop.
Factually incorrect. Under GL, the group lead can kick you right before a boss dies and you will not be eligible to roll on any loot that drops. Even if you are still in the instance and actively attacking the boss when it dies. No loot window. Nothing. You get bupkis. Fact, this was not the case under PL.
They are. I’ve explained it multiple times now. You just cannot handle the fact that there are circumstances where PL solved particular problems that GL has now exposed. Also remeber I never said that PL was objectively superior to GL. I only said that it has certain advantages. Do these advantages make it my preferred loot system? Yes, yes it does. Because it solved a huge problem in pugs for me. That is, the toxicity problem. So ironically, the thing you are so worried about (toxicity) is the one thing that PL completely solved for me. Funny that.
The fact that you cannot see reason on this proves to me that you are trolling on this topic. So I will add you to the ignore list along with the rest of the trolls. Feel free to get the last word in if it makes you feel any better. It won’t make you correct though.
