The retuners want patch 1.x for MC, patch 1.x for bwl, patch 1.x for AQ and patch 1.12 for naxx. They still haven’t realised that blizzard already decided on 1.12 about 6 months ago.
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But we’re getting 1.12 classes, there are no numbers they can look at that compare 1.12 classes to release MC for example. We can play the beta and some people will say this feels too easy or this feels just right or this feels to hard.
People are not grasping that we are getting 1.12 classic, period. Blizzard is not going to make a bunch of changes to appease a vocal minority because then that would CHANGE classic.
#nochanges. You asked for it, you GOT it. ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
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You can still only do MC once a week, so nothing about the “loot distribution” model is being changed.
Making the bosses numerically harder is not going to do anything but make the boss fights take longer for the good raiders and give the less skilled raiders longer bouts of frustration. No matter how you retune the raids, the top tier raiders are still going to make short work of MC. MC mechanically isn’t that hard and once you get the strats down it’s pretty easy.
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Not changing classic from pure 1.12 is DRASTICALLY changing classic from what Vanilla was. Take your vapid #nochange meme somewhere else and actually form a coherent thought… because your weak attempts to not do changes would ironically cause some of the largest changes to the game as a whole.
If the content is massively easier, then significantly more people, people who would not and/or could not get it done in actual vanilla, are going to be doing the content for the gear…
In 1.12 balance I can push 3 characters through MC speed runs, in the time it would have taken me to do 1 in real character vanilla… You’re increasing overall loot distribution by drastically increasing accessibility.
It’s kind of like if you where to take a heroic level raid from retail and nerf the difficulty down to LFR level, but leave the itemization the same. You’ve trivialized the raid tier, and the entire gear progression system is now horribly out of whack. You really don’t want to see any and every moron who hits 60 on a 2hander using class or a Rogue end up swinging weapons that are on par with HWL weapons because they speedran MC a couple dozen times in a greened out pug.
No, people advocating for raid retuning merely want the CONTENT made to appropriately reflect the difficulty it was intended to have when it current content. Nothing would change on classes specifically, just the raids themselves being buffed to appropriately compensate for the additional power that 1.12 classes and debuff slots bring.
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But classic is going to be different than vanilla. And retuning numbers won’t change that.
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I see you ignored my second point. Like I said, making the early raids numerically harder doesn’t solve your issue. All it does is make MC take longer for the top raiders. And lets be for real, it took the average guild that could farm MC in Vanilla, 4 hours to clear the place. That gives them the vast, vast majority of the week to run any alt runs they want through it. So even if you retuned it so the average farm clear was 4 hours, the top end raiders who want to do it on alts before the 2nd batch of raids gets dropped are still going to do it.
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It really doesn’t change the fact that walking into MC with 40 people who have never been in it before or maybe have never cleared more than a boss or two is an experience that will almost certainly not happen in classic.
No amount of just tuning numbers can change that.
I didn’t ignore your point, I assumed you would realize that time to kill was a massive factor in raid balance to begin with.
Pserver numbers have many mages raiding as Arcane spec, because they do more damage if they hit arcane power and the boss falls over and dies.
In real vanilla, arcane spec was never used as a raid build, because both fire and frost would pull away from it over the long haul. It’s a difference that only becomes apparent because the fight length gets shortened massively.
Boss damage values would also potentially be increased, if raidwide HP values where expected to be higher with 1.12 gearing.
Mana efficiency concerns also become significantly more important in longer duration fights. A fight that used to take 5 minutes that now is done in 1:30 ends up with healers never really having to manage their mana.
This. I find it funny that one or two people still are not grasping this very simple point.
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The goal is to make it as close as possible… properly tuning raids upwards to intended difficulty accomplishes that goal… leaving them as 1.12 pserver faceroll fests does not.
Private servers are also not, nor have they been 100% accurate to what vanilla was. They were close approximations and guess work at best.
Oh no, I totally get that. I was in a raid guild that had MC on farm and were on 4th boss in BWL when BC came out.
Wrong. Blizzard very clearly stated that the goal is to make it as accurate to patch 1.12 as possible. If that point keeps going over your head then I’ll not waste any more time with you LOL.
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No changes
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As close to possible of what? 1.12 had a very measurable difficulty for everything that can be matched. Various people impressions of how hard MC was at launch vs how hard it was in 1.12 and how hard it should be with 1.12 classes cannot be measured at all outside of people’s varied recollections and opinions.
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No, they very clearly stated 1.12 was the BASELINE they where using and that they where open to discussions on things that where otherwise from vanilla. They even specifically referenced decisions like UBRS being a 15 man, a 10man or a 5man as an example…
Rag was also killed that quickly in the LFR version of MC in whatever expansion that was (WoD? I think?)… and MC in general was being speed cleared by 1.12 in vanilla, and pugged as well.
Pserver numbers aren’t nearly as far off as you pretend they are.
Fixing the raids to their intended difficulty levels IS the essence of not changing things. Keeping them as 1.12 faceroll speedruns in greens is the giant change.
If you genuinely believe blizzard doesn’t have earlier versions of the game saved you are being hopelessly naive, or have never worked in software. They have backups, even if they say they don’t (remember they also claimed not to have backups of 1.12).
To what difficulty the raids where initially designed to be. This really isn’t that hard of a concept.
In a worst case scenario you can simply start with Naxx numbers and work backwards and tune that way. You know 1.12 was designed for Naxx level content. You know AQ40 has to be more or less easier (though the final couple of AQ40 where harder than about half of Naxx)… You know that BWL has to be roughly the next step down, and you know MC has to be somewhere between ZG and BWL (and well above where a pure 1.12 MC sits).
I really don’t understand why you are pretending this is all that difficult to do… Even completely redoing the numbers working backwards from Naxx is going to end up with a significantly more authentic game than just shrugging your shoulders and launching with pure 1.12 where you already know the numbers are way off and the content is massively easier than it should be.
How is it not a difficult concept? Your perceived difficulty is going to be different that someone elses even in the same patch. Throw in multiple patches and of course that everyone knows the instances and how can we even say how hard these dungeons and raids really were?
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How did they ever make it in the first place? You are trying to make this sound like some impossible Sisyphean task, when it’s really very straight forward and easy to accomplish. As I said above, even if you had to completely make new numbers up for the earlier raid tiers because you’re the only company in history that doesn’t actually archive previous versions of your multi billion dollar software, you already have baselines within which to work. Take Naxx data, which is balanced around 1.12 and work backwards. Not hard.
I’m thinking your motives advocating against this are more along the lines of trying to personally secure specific gear thresholds for little-no work involved, or that perhaps people are actually right about your desire to sabotage this product for some unknown reason.
this 100x, i expect nothing less than what private servers can produce. larger and more detailed timeline, progressive itemisation, spell batching, 8 debuffs, no sharding.