AQ and Naxx won’t even be available in a few months after launch.
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Yep. And even when they release it’s going to take a while to clear them
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Yeah the other raids will most likely launch in the content drought of retail
I didn’t say they should care. I guess if that post was too hard to understand, I’ll be clearer this time.
If you want balance and raid focus, there’s a BFA for you.
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Let’s just ignore the full time job argument for the sake of moving forward and not hanging up on that platitude.
The major flaw to this logic is vanilla was on a time limit. Classic is not. All that “work” needed can be paced to the players level or effort. If someone raids once a month, it’s ok, Classic isn’t becoming TBC.
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I don’t think anyone is saying that they should focus on raids. If you don’t want to raid that is fine.
However it is a very big difference for raiding the initial raids with the changes 1.12 brought about. That is why they want them retuned. To bring them back to the original difficulty (Which even for molten core wasn’t that bad).
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Where r you going to find a raid spot where you raid once a month?
Cute, you must be new to 40 man raiding.
Because I don’t agree with you on re-tuning.
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The question OP should be asking himself is whether or not Naxxramas would even be possible if he gets his wish.
Naxxramas came during patch 1.11 and that’s actually the shield slam changes he was referring to, not 1.12.
And since basic facts or reality seem too difficult for YOU to understand, then let me enlighten you.
Vanilla WoW, BY DESIGN, was the single MOST “RAID OR DIE” period of WoW’s entire history. Trying to pretend Vanilla didn’t have a “raid focus” when it was literally the only thing you could even do at endgame is obscenely naive or willfully stupid.
As for desire for “balance” well… the game as it was launched was BALANCED around raid level gear being intentionally difficult to get. It’s a massive change to make entry level raiding far easier than it was designed to be via using the late vanilla patch model, and does significant damage to the gearing progression system by turning raids into near trivial jokes.
So rather than spout off on topics you clearly don’t actually know a damn thing about, how YOU go scurry off to BFA if you want to be patted on the back constantly for being a casual player, rather than trying to intentionally sabotage Classic raiding by warping it to fit your casual play style… They have what you’re looking for in BfA, it’s called LFR.
For you. Again, that wasn’t everybody. Far from it, actually. In fact, you’re probably 95% wrong, which is almost as wrong as you can be.
Well, because you used the word “literally,” that statement was 100% wrong.
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You not raiding doesn’t remotely change what the game was entirely designed and balanced around… Good lord you casuals are delusional. Reporting your posts for trolling at this point.
The vast majority of the people not being able to raid is what caused changes down the line, like welfare gear, catchup mechanics, non raid daily quests, badge gear, and LFR… Guess how much of that was in Vanilla?? Oh right, not a damn bit of it. Get a clue.
And since basic facts or reality seem too difficult for YOU to understand, then let me enlighten you.
Vanilla WoW, BY DESIGN, was the single MOST “RAID OR DIE” period of WoW’s entire history. Trying to pretend Vanilla didn’t have a “raid focus” when it was literally the only thing you could even do at endgame is obscenely naive or willfully stupid.
As for desire for “balance” well… the game as it was launched was BALANCED around raid level gear being intentionally difficult to get. It’s a massive change to make entry level raiding far easier than it was designed to be via using the late vanilla patch model, and does significant damage to the gearing progression system by turning raids into near trivial jokes.
So rather than spout off on topics you clearly don’t actually know a damn thing about, how YOU go scurry off to BFA if you want to be patted on the back constantly for being a casual player, rather than trying to intentionally sabotage Classic raiding by warping it to fit your casual play style… They have what you’re looking for in BfA, it’s called LFR.
The easiest (and most authentic) way to do it, is revert all the threat generation changes outside of Naxxramas, then have a Naxxramas zone specific buff inside the instance.
As for the debuff limit and spell differences, the best you can really do here is simply tune the boss numbers upwards until the fights are representative of what real vanilla tuning was actually like… An example I use frequently is Ragnaros fight…
On Pservers, and in the LFR version of Molten Core, Ragnaros is nearly dead by the time the very first “Sons of Ragnaros” phase starts. You can get him there wearing greens.
During actual vanilla progression on Ragnaros, you’d expect to see AT LEAST TWO Sons phases (and my OG guild was seeing 3 for a bit)… The difference in fight duration because of damage output was massive.
Did you just agree with me that the vast majority of players weren’t raiders? Why bother to argue if you’re just going to defeat yourself?
Go ahead and report me because I found some gaping cracks in your “logic.” I’m sure I will be punished to your satisfaction.
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You choose. Your excessive use of hyperbole to make points and need to demean people who don’t agree grant you that right.
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Exactly if you want modern raid tuning go play BFA.
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There’s a world of difference between asking for non vanilla changes and asking for raids to be tuned upwards to intended vanilla levels, where they belong.
The 1.12 balance scheme invalidates roughly half of the raid content into a cakewalk that it was never designed or intended to be, as it was already obsolete content by that time. Tuning upwards is merely correcting that mistake without having to program separate balance patches and a progressive patching system into place…
You should know by now Ziryus that I’m one of the least “purist” people on these forums, but this is intentionally trying to make the game much more accurate in it’s difficulty and where I find common ground with many purists, because “Purists” should be all in favor of recreating the experience as accurately as possible, and that includes the intended difficulty levels.
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For the top … 20% - 30% of raiders maybe. For the majority of people even with 1.12 raiding MC, AQ20, ZG, and World Bosses are still going to present a challenge.
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What was the intended difficulty level though? Do we look at how many wipes the average guild had in an earlier patch and simply tune numbers until that is achieved? How is that accurate?
But how does that even work? Is it MC wipes at launch? MC wipes in 1.6, 1.7, 1.8? What about people who didn’t raid MC until 1.12?
[quote=“Velossena-wyrmrest-accord, post:67, topic:24828”]
For the top … 20% - 30% of raiders maybe. For the majority of people even with 1.12 raiding MC, AQ20, ZG, and World Bosses are still going to present a challenge.
[/quote] Failure to do that, however, drastically changes the amount of and availability of raid level gear to the players. There are pretty sizable impacts of such a change, for both PvE and PvP. There’s significantly less incentive to push for Rank 14, for example, when Molten Core is entirely puggable, because Ragnaros dropped weapons on par with the HWL ones (and I don’t just mean Hand of Rag, I mean Spinal Reaper, Perdition’s Blade, and Bonereaver’s Edge)…
Changing the loot distribution models via making raids easier than intended is pretty drastically changing the game from what it was at the time, particularly when as pointed out by a casual over and over and over… most people didn’t raid in vanilla. That quickly changes when any muppet capable of hitting 60 is capable of pugging a Molten core speed run while wearing greens.
Math determining the hp/damage values of people when the content was actually current vs the 1.12 patch and adjusting boss numbers to compensate would be the most accurate method…
If they really don’t have an archived copy of anything pre-1.12 then you basically have to start looking for old design notes and goals from that time and or guessing/checking it via manually testing and tuning it internally (though I’d be very skeptical of their claim to not have anything before 1.12 saved some where to begin with, since they also claimed they didn’t have the 1.12 data previously, and have previously asked for discussions on what patch of vanilla certain things should be set at examples where raid status/size of UBRS, Strat, and AV version, for example)