im sorry but that is a huge IF also this means you dont know what exact issues ret has overal. rets issue that keeps it from being competative with other specs is its inability to cleave/aoe without sacing st. so effeectively the only raid we will be “good in” is aberrus the majority st raid. even then we’ll only be mid because echo of nelth and sark have VERY important cleave adds that need to be dealt with
S3 over season 2 ain’t gonna magic fix our talent single/AOE design.
But yeah everything is always IF.
So if they’re able to tune s2 well for pve to keep us in line with most specs, Doesn’t have to be for every single encounter mind you, Then everyone will be happy
and s2 is a downgrade of s3 in every since of the word for pve
im sorry but i dont have your positivity considering everything that has happen. i dont believe that s2 can be buffed enough in a realistic setting.
If your gonna be that pessimistic then why would you care if we get s2 or s3 if you think ret is gonna be trash compared to everyone else?
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why would i want a tierset thats worse in ever aspect just to hope its gonna get buffed over a forsure ier set thats mroe than double its overal % increase
What doesn’t matter if we’re bottom of the barrel anyway?
If we’re bottom of the barrel it doesn’t matter.
If we’re competitive with either then s2 is better so the pvpers are happy as well.
So either way s3 is a bad idea
your not getting it, so there is no point. just because ret is bottom, we should gravitate towards the worse set in pve? like i get its the best set for pvp so say that. dont try to go “but in pve” with shoddy arguments.
honestly s1 set is better than s2 set cause that can be buffed easier if we’re going hypotheticals
honestly? if we really going down and dirty with this. season 1 is the best pvp tierset cause it buffs your burst
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Buffing burst is the reason why s2 is best for pvp…
Season 2 tier set should be the one to vote for if you’re interested in PVP at all or enjoy Hammer of Wrath being a priority in rotation.
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Rets also need a buff in the healings, it´s anoying how low they are now wod and flash light are nerfed to the ground in pvp+dampening+ms= the lowest healings for a hybrid class, thats why even mage do more overall healings than us. Feels really bad use 3 holy power with wings to try to heal us and it does only 120k crit in best cases.
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PVP Ret is not in a fun place right now.
Yeah, FoL/WoG are awful and useless to press. The rework tried to address Ret survivability with JV, Crusader’s Reprieve, Fading Light, Divine Protection, WoG, FoL and Sanctified Plates… They ALL got considerably nerfed in DFS1.
Now we’re almost halfway into DFS3 and pretty much every class has more effective self-healing AND DPS than Ret while almost all our abilities have negative PVP modifiers. We can’t even play 1MIN AW which was a huge appeal on rework to have more consistent pressure. Ret is slowly creeping back to the place that warranted a rework.
Somehow, DH/Rogue/DK post rework rule the top of the ladder, Locks and Mages are immortal (and untouchable), but we are back to being black sheep after our bland rework despite Ret having such a fandom. It’s very questionable when Ret received 3% damage buff in PVE/PVP, WW received a 6% damage buff in PVE/PVP and not long after receives an additional 10% to RSK, Fists of Fury, and WDP (WW top of 2’s/3’s/SS ladder now btw) and Ret is still underperforming at the bottom of Raid/PVP.
As I said when I started the forum, I am for lifting the negative PVP modifiers. It’s due time for some tweaks now with the hopes of a revisit to our talent tree (class, spec and honor talents) sometime soon.
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- Retribution
- Wake of Ashes damage increased by 20%.
- Truth’s Wake damage increased by 28%.
- Seething Flames damage increased by 28%.
- Blade of Justice damage increased by 20%.
- Final Verdict damage increased by 10%.
Great start for changes.
My last post’s concerns have been addressed! Praise be.
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The damage buffs are nice, but the Healing and the Tier Bonuses still seem to not be fixed. =/
It really sucks having our healing be tied to so many inconsequential talents effecting direct spells and not just giving us a Leech Buff.
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Yeah, that’s true. Our healing is still an issue. I gave up on our tier being meaningful long ago.
- Plate specialization classes now have their armor reduced by 30% in Arenas and Battlegrounds.
This will hurt us pretty bad since we already flop but hopefully we will see PVP specific tuning for Ret to help survival.
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Yeah it’s not great, but Paladins do pretty well into classes that do physical damage, so I wasn’t too worried about that change.
The more concerning one is the trinket bonus giving +15% HP again.
- The Gladiator’s Distinction 2-piece set bonus now increases Stamina by 15% for Damage Dealer and Tank roles (was 5%).
Our heals already feel weak compared to our Health Pool now, adding another 10% will only make that worse. While it does help SoV a bit, a lot of other classes tend to have a percent based heal, such as Victory Rush, which scales with these types of changes.
I wish they’d increase JV’s range to 20 yards as well, so we could get that passive % based healing without being so punished by being kited.
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JV healing isnt great, but it isnt used due to range like you mentioned, but even more so the average damage done per cast is quite low. The very large JV hits are quite few and far between.
very passionate words 
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Well, depending on your comp JV’s damage could be an acceptable tradeoff because you still get the 15% damage modifier when targets are stunned.
I’d be willing to trade a bit of damage if it meant that I was a bit more tanky. However, nerfing JV to 2% healing and it having only an 8 yard range is just too much.
The difference in feeling of playing Ret from Mythic+ to PvP is pretty insane.
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JV does 5% healing on live. Did someone talk about reducing it?
You are right about using JV with a comp built to stun(in pvp) and coms to request stuns on the target to make JV more viable. Personally I’ve never seen arena or BG teams using it.
I meant form a PvP perspective.
- Justicar’s Vengeance = 2%, down from 5%.
- Fading Light = 3%, down from 10%.
- Crusader’s Reprieve = 1%, down from 2%.
- Sanctified Plates = 5% Stamina, down from 10% Stamina
- Divine Protection = 20% Damage reduction, down from 30%.
Then things like Word of Glory, Flash of Light and Shield of Vengeance are further reduced in PvP, effected by MS, and dampening.
Like Foxysfeet said, we just have too many modifiers which are nerfed in PvP.
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