I had forgotten about the Fading Light, Crusaders Reprieve, JV, and Sanctified Plates pvp specific nerfs. Everything else was fresh in my mind. We really are a Warrior without instant mobility, disarm, mortal strike. Being a hybrid is just banned for us.
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Yeah, we just have too many dead or redundant talents for PvP, such as Fading Light, Touch of Light and JV.
Justiciar’s Vengeance’s Healing could be baked in Lightforged Blessing and see very little to no changes for Holy and Prot due to them only having SotR as an offensive Holy Power Spender.
Of Dusk to Dawn, Fading Light, Seal of Order, and Strength of Conviction just need to be deleted as its just more unnecessary modifiers for the class, and we should be given real capstone talents with unique choices.
Then abilities like:
- Seal of Mercy
- Golden Path
- Incandescence
and
- Touch of Light
- Judgement of Light
Could merge and become a more compelling choice node talent. Do you want your Consecration ability to provide healing or do you want Judgement and your offensive abilities to provide healing?
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Judgment and other offensive abilities please. If I had the ability to self sustain while I do damage like a Fury Warrior or Demon Hunter I would be over the moon.
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Well, it’s not even just that, its the possibility to make even more unique choices within our tree for playstyle customization.
For example, you could do:
- Judgement of Justice vs Judgement of Light
- Snare vs Healing - Incandescence vs Consecrated Ground
- Snare vs Healing
-
Judgement of Light vs Incandescence
- Healing vs Healing -
Judgement of Justice vs Consecrated Ground
- Snare vs Snare
I think these would be more interesting choices than say Rush of Light vs Consecrated Ground, the ability to focus on more healing output or having more snares, or even a mix of both.
Same thing with Healing Hands, is Afterimage even a comparison?
Paladins have all the tools, it just needs to be organized and polished up.
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And not pvp nerfed.
Now every time i fight against a lock i am outhealed by him XD, and if u try to heal me to much i get om.
How did afterimage even end up with healing hands? Healing hands is so much stronger it’s not even funny.
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So much thinking and changes when all i want is wog mana cost removed, mastery unnerfed and unbound freedom havikg dispel protection again.
Oh and ES deleted from the game along with crusade.
Bonus for csaa nerfed into the ground and TS buffrd to finally be useable.
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The people reworking Ret spec got hamstrung by the class tree design.
They legit couldn’t ship all they wanted into it because there wasn’t enough place so they had to make fake choices or add “non-problematic” nodes emplacement SPECIFIC to ret spec… in the class tree… think about that.
On a timeline, it was unrealistic to rework both Ret AND the class tree because class tree would have affected the other specs.
Which means that if you do rework it, you need to rework all the specs to a certain degree.
They didn’t have that amount of time.
Really curious to see how are they gonna work backward from the specs to the class tree now.
Or changed if it proves to be too much to balance in its current form with the current set up we have.
It all hinges on what they do with the class tree for War Within
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They could have it be a two piece mastery like enhancement.
Enh mastery increases elemental damage by a % just like ours and it increases the chance to proc stormbringer by a much lesser %(so its kind of useless lol)
I like the flat holy damage increase so theres room for something else like baking a much stronger touch of light there (for both damage and healing so it has added value in pvp) or even divine purpose but starting at like 15% so we end up at 25% or something. Idk
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I think Light decree effect would be nice ( which is what touch of light kind of is but not quite).
Like Benmarch said, just ran out of time I guess.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I actually think Healing Hands is too over budget for a singular talent.
I like the functionality of Healing Hands, its a good example of “high risk, high reward” but when you look at the talent objectively, it’s a massive modifier for WoG and Lay on Hands.
Imagine if the talent read:
- “Reduces Lay on Hands cooldown by 4 min and increases WoG healing by 100%.”
That would just seem a bit much for a singular talent, especially if anything had to compete versus it.
I just wonder if the modifiers of Strength of Convicition, Of Dusk to Dawn, Seal of Order, and even Healing Hands is too high, resulting in the ability feeling to weak baseline.
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This only really addresses PvE
I’d like to see a few changes, I think ret would feel amazing with them. Number tuning would obviously be needed.
- Mastery buffed
- Expurgation baseline and Blade of Vengeance moved to it’s spot or Blade of Vengeance baseline and keep Expurgation where it is.
- Vanguard of Justice changed to make FV/TV cleave (ideally removing the Holy Power cost change and damage amp. (I just hate the way 4 holy power spenders feel)
- Divine Auxiliary reworked - makes ES cleave and FR CD reduce on hitting a single target (30 seconds would be nice for CD alignment with Wake)
- Blessed champion 1 point node (Probably a bit much but it could create some fun potential)
- Add the season 2 Hammer of Wrath cleave to either Vengeful Wrath or Vanguard’s Momentum (maybe compensate by removing the extra holy power on Vanguard’s Momentum)
Personal preference / QoL
- Remove Consecrated Blade and just make Divine Hammer good (increased range, CD at 15 seconds, have sanctify increase it’s damage against fewer targets).
- Make Blinding Light a knockdown, stun, or silence (Cool but unrealistic idea with a nasty tradeoff since blizz doesn’t want us to have this, make it only do this if we cast it during Shield of Vengeance and have it pop the bubble in the process)
I’m honestly not convinced ret can be in a consistent and healthy spot with PvP while Mortal Strike and other such abilities are around and we don’t have either a counter to it, a version of it, or something similar like Necrotic Strike. If we get enough damage to achieve a similar net damage value without it we can’t be balanced to do the necessary amount of damage without breaking the game when playing with another class that has it. I don’t know the answer here, but it has always felt like an issue when I played PvP, we are either good because we can nuke things or because we bring a lot of healing and support, people hate it when we do either of those well and especially if we hit both. Right now we are kind of neither from what I have seen.
Maybe they could play with some PvP talents to modify Justicar’s Vengeance in a unique way.
- transfer an amount of damage you take or the target deals to you back to them, maybe a sort of Sacrifice mechanic.
- redirects an amount of healing the target takes to you instead.
- amps your next JV based on the amount of healing the target has received since the previous one
3 Likes
For shame. How dare you bring up PvE changes at a time like this. 
Does anyone feels any difference with the buff, it feels so weird like nothing as change.
The only part of the change you are likely to noticeably see is in the Wake of Ashes damage, if you were at a threshold point where it flips from seeing something like 70-90k and now you see 90 -110k. The ones that start popping above that 100k threshold more often will stand out, everything under that will seem the same unless you really watch your damage numbers all the time. You should see it in the meters though, but again, not as big as you might be expecting. If you are parsing something like 180k most of the time, you will probably be doing close to 190 now, but you won’t hit that 200k break point so it might not seem noticeable. Different breaking points can really skew our perception. (going from 195k to 205k on average can feel more significant than going from 185k to 195k, but it is still the same size jump)
While the % change in the abilities buffed was large, you have to keep in mind that it wasn’t 30% overall, 30% on an ability you only use every 30 seconds and that accounts for only around 6% of your overall single target damage, so you buffed 6% of your damage by 30%. If wake was contributing 11kdps, now it contributes 14k, so your meter now averages 187k instead of 184k. A deceptively small bump for what you expect when you see a number like 30%
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It was a little better, I had M+ auto attack build for the last 2 bosses in the current raid today and was on top of the other paladins, but absolutely destroyed by the 5 fury warriors in the group. I should have switched to single target though, but I thought I’d have some decent AoE bumps from adds, but everything died very quickly.
I’m thinking we’re going to be great on trash, but haven’t had a chance to try it yet.
Yeah, we will see a bump in across the board, but our AoE/Single Target/Cleave disparity is tied up in our talent tree, that is where it needs to be fixed. The kind of buffs they would need to do to fix it through number tuning like this would probably make a huge mess in other areas. What they did will help, but it isn’t a real fix by any means, and realistically they should have just buffed mastery to get a similar result that will scale so that they don’t have to keep doing this. If they’d just put mastery at a healthier value relative to versatility and then pulled back a couple abilities that would disproportionately benefit we would be in a good spot (scaling wise, still have talent issues) and probably scale ok going into the next tier without being in need of more buff passes which we will inevitably run into if they don’t change anything.
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At least in pvp all i feel is I die faster to warriors ww rogues and AI pets. Havent felt the damage buffs at all.
I was at 40% got stunned by a rogue, instant dp and a second later I was at 5% and had to divine shield with dp up lel.
Literally like I’ve been saying for 5 years… just return Rets kit back to them. Long arm of the law, emancipate, selfless healer. Literally fixed the class in 1 sentence and Blizzard takes 6 years to incompetently rework the spec? Tf are we paying you for Blizzard?
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