That argument has been around for a very long time - it’s not recent.
The thing is, if all these things are sub-par at the same time, a melee spec just doesn’t work at all, especially if it doesn’t bring other utility.
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I never intended to imply that this was a novel feeling/idea. But this feeling reached its peak after MOP for me and never came back down.
The thing is I would really love to know what is holding the spec back.
Prior to Legion mobility/range/defensives/utility was not really a problem for paladins. Then Legion came and the paradigm changed drastically. Who decided that and why? Sure, there was this whole class fantasy shenanigans (that never really worked out). The retribution passive came into being and plagued us ever since. How can it be that pages and pages of feedback for FOUR expacs now did not incentivize the devs to change ret (and the same could be said for paladins in general) for the better?
What are we? Knights? Crusaders? Defenders? The devs use those terms interchangeably although they mean different things.
And then there is this whole thing about improving communication with the community. They literally say every expac that they need to do better…but do they? Even a simple “ok, dear ret players, we don’t intend to change anything for you besides numbers” would go a long way. People could adapt or move on. But being in this constant vacuum is just unnerving and doesn’t shine a good light on the devs, sorry to be that guy.
13 Likes
Right on, the situation just feels depressing. If I could best explain the feeling is that it feels like our class dev has a personal vendetta against the class. I started in Legion and despite being the only class fantasy I actively enjoy in WoW, the gameplay just doesn’t keep me, in Legion I would complain in the forums about the design but I couldn’t put my finger on what exactly was wrong, after all, there was very little I knew about it back then, it just “didn’t feel good”, especially when I compared to my warrior for instance where gameplay had a certain comfortable flow to it.
But yeah, nowadays there’s a lot of things that I still don’t like, I wish we had more reliable mobility, I wish our attacks were less physical and more magical as they were in expansions prior to legion(more of a sound design complaint if anything, but animation for some as well such as judgement or blade of wrath doesn’t feel like it belongs to WoW’s lore on paladins.), I wish we weren’t yet another 1min burst window spec on ret, among other petty things here and there.
But regardless of what I personally want out of the class, there seems to be a general consensus that what we got right now just isn’t hitting the right spot for the vast majority of us and Dragonflight is either not making it better or actively making it worse for some, and it’s disheartening checking Wowhead every day, hoping for the best but either being met with complete silence or changes that seem to have completely ignored feedback, it’s slowly killing my already weak hype for Dragonflight.
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Don’t get me started on Steed. I am one of those who generally doesn’t mind the pony (granted I’d like my Cata/MoP/WoD LAotL and Judgment animation back), but who in their right minds thinks that needing four (one for Steed, one for Cavalier and two for the duration increase) talent points to get something that is even worse than what we have now (with one “talent point”, Cavalier) is good game design? Like come on…that literally screams “laziness” and “filler talents”. Ok, I try to cool down now. Sry for the rant.
…and seeing bluepost for almost any other class and even the other paladin specs but no acknowledgement for ret. Not that the posts for holy and prot were gamechangers.
As far as I have seen only rogues got it even worse. They have a single bluepost in their class thread and that’s the OP. It’s outright pathetic at this point.
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They took away my utility and I want it back. There is plenty of opportunity for that in the talent trees still.
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Following today’s post about priest and last week post about warlock (Removal of stand alone interrupt) and also given the explanation they gave for both and the one we got for LaotL, I have to say that my hopes for a realistic look at Ret are now extremely low.
The philosophy around the class as a whole seem to also be in jeopardy, both our other spec are, reportedly, clunky and uninspired.
This looks pretty grim.
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The priest post made it feel like quite a bit of arbritary decisions are being made. My optimism is quickly turning into dread on if they decide to turn an eye on paladins and ret in particular.
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Yup, the inevitable “We like how things are looking now, but that doesn’t mean we won’t make changes in the future!” is about to come for Paladins, lol.
I guess changing Retribution Aura, Divine Steed, and adding at least 1 utility button was too much to ask. 
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Inb4 10.1.5 “we understand your concerns and we are making the following changes youve all been waiting for”
Retribution
-All damage increased by 5%
-Obducracy movement speed increased to 5% (up from 2%)
-Divine steed cooldown reduced to 40 seconds.
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haha you joke, but this is exactly what will happen. Just like in the past.
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I can’t even say that I’m surprised by the devs’ stubborness. Always hoping for the best, always expecting the worst. And the devs don’t “disappoint” in this regard. Looks like the first expac I’m not buying since I started playing but I don’t like to reward the devs for their constant lying (“we will do better!” “we will improve communication!”) and the pure spite they show towards certain classes.
I looked at other classes but i just can’t find one that gives me the same fun ret did. Since Legion they all have gone straight downhill.
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To play the devil’s advocate, we did get 1 new utility button in CR.
I mean, so did Prot and Holy, which means that unless Ret is doing S tier damage, Prot and Holy are still a more desirable spec.
Meh, Combat Rez isn’t really unique to Paladins. I mean more so along the lines of a class unique raid benefit or defensive. 
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Brezz? Lol for ourselves after they nuke us into our bubble and than flopped over.
I mean lets be real. The bres is cool but wont help us. It’s not instant cast, and why bring a ret with a casted res when you can take a dk who does more dps has AMZ and has an instant brez.
You would just take multiple dk’s instead of a ret.
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Different DPS loss but both still DPS loss. They have to use runic power to achieve that. Ret has seen Mana become a useless resource through the years in favor of HoPo so they objectively can’t give it a mana cost since it wouldn’t really be a “cost” and using Wake against the empty air in front of me to allow a brez on someone is not a prospect I find particularly attractive.
So yeah, cast time it is and it’s the better choice IMO, every other spec aside from Dk’s and Guardian has a cast time on Brez, I don’t know who in their right mind would’ve thought pally would be the second exception to this.
It’s an absolute bummer for prot though who has a instant BR with HoPo cost BUT is getting its HoPo generation nerfed right now. They gave us a cool tool and thematically fitting but meaningful auras would also have carried us a long way.
1 Like
Tbh, i’d rather it cost 2 HP or something like that and be instant, instead of 2 seconds of casting, i feel so exposed while casting anything. lol
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I think this would have been the compromise. But I just don’t see them be willing to cost a HoPo spender anything else than 3 or 5 HoPo…
For the sake of “consistency” you know, because that’s something that pop off in their head sometimes but that they conveniently forget other times.