Oh, just take your like and leave me to my sorrow.
I’ll require some alcohol after reading that, knowing that’s increasingly likely to happen.
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Godspeed. My two favorite races are nelves and draenei. My liver hates the writing more than I do, at this point.
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Because she’s already royalty, its “handed” to her because its her birthright. And what twisted bloodline? Her brother made that choice, it didn’t curse her family, that was a choice Arthas made. His bloodline had nothing to do with it.
They actually said quite specifically that they were going for a Game of Thrones type writing. Which currently at the moment, they are doing a good job. The writing is complete garbage just like the last season when they couldn’t just copy material from books, they actually had to create a story. God don’t even get me started on the complete arrogance of those writers.
Its worse that they are working on the new Star Wars too.
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Yes, but the Forsaken now are so far removed from their past lives and the Lordearon government really doesn’t exist, especially now. It would have at least made it interesting to see Calia at least try to fight for the respect of her former people. And if things panned out, it would at least rein the Forsaken back in after slipping so far down a dark path and began to remind them of how things once were.
But it won’t.
Because of bad writing.
Yep. That’s pretty spot on.
You clearly didn’t read Before the Storm, or at least the audiobook when it was available. There is a pretty big sect of the forsaken that want to rejoin their families that fled to azeroth. They all kept their sentience, you’re coming from a stance that they are evil, and they aren’t. They aren’t removed from their past lives, they are the same people, just undead. This seems to be where you have a disconnect.
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Yeah, I read it.
There was the groundwork for some really good story there, but it fell on its face pretty hard. If I asserted the Forsaken were all completely evil, then Calia coming back would be a hilarious non-starter. But they aren’t all evil, in spite of Sylvanas’s best efforts.
I just wish it didn’t involve yet another bastardization of the Naa’ru.
I don’t appreciate you implying that I’m ignorant. I just have a different opinion. A strong one, but an opinion none the less.
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It’s not lore breaking… It doesn’t even conflict with the lore.
I feel like more and more people immediately go to extremes anymore when talking about something they personally do not like. Instead of making a rational, calm, collected post on WHY they do not like something instead it goes from 0 to 100 in an instant on the forums with the furthest extremes. This, however, is not lore breaking in my eyes.
We know that the Light can be used to resurrect players in game and have been able to do so for a long time and no one bats an eye. When has resurrection really been used in story though on important characters through the Light and not Death Magic? It does not get used in the story because resurrection spells, the way they function for players, invalidate stakes or risk in the world and are extremely easy to pull off compared to how things like that work in games like Dungeons and Dragons (having expensive costs and depending on the DM having serious consequences on the revived) or in few other fantasy settings.
What I honestly see here, with Calia, is a legitimate Holy resurrection spell from how the Lore would now view Resurrection. Something that takes a MASSIVE amount of power to do as detailed in the book “Before the Storm”. (Also, as an aside, you are kiiiiiiiiinda late to the party on freaking out over Calia if you choose just now to start complaining about this.)
Anduin even comments on how when he uses the Light it always felt like a stream/river of energy where as when performing this feat on Calia it felt like an endless ocean of power flowing through him on top of mentioning it took him, Alonsus Faol, AND a Naaru to actually accomplish this task. Even with all of that, requiring a being of pure light and two very accomplished and skilled priests, they were not resurrected back to what they once were and will never be normal.
You can call that bad story telling but I call that an interesting twist on the idea of how the light is capable of resurrection, what the consequences of something so unnatural is, and a way to take an in game feature and flesh out how something like that would actually work in the lore.
… What? She isn’t old, she was never buried… did you even read Before the Storm?
It’s not redemption, its showing that Forsaken are not mindless and not all of them agree with the same ideas.
Did you think the Orcs having different opinions of Garrosh and his horde was “redemption” for the Orcs back in MoP? Its fleshing out a race and showing that not all who are Undead are these mindless monsters that delight in suffering, killing, plague, ect and that its far more complex a system than that. It also falls in line with the idea of the “Forsaken” feeling forsaken, abandoned, longing for what they lost with family and loved ones. Some have moved on, others desperately want those connections back.
I don’t see you complaining about Lilian Voss’s story in the Undead starting zone and how she wanted nothing to do with being a Forsaken and wanted to be with her father and loved ones again. Is that desire also seen as “redemption” to you? These stories are nothing new. BFA even had one with that Tide Sage who was turned into a Forsaken and still loved his family and wished he could return to them, even going so far as to making sure they were kept safe and alive in his story line (shame he died).
Except you are trying to write it off as if there can only be one side of this, that Calia is going to replace Sylvanas and everyone is going to go along with it. You don’t think there won’t be Sylvanas loyalists? As stated, the rift in the forsaken has always existed and there have always been forsaken who would much rather return home to their loved ones instead of follow Sylvanas and then there are Forsaken who would much rather embrace the new life of undeath than return to what they had.
For gods sake, even Sylvanas desperately wants to be reunited with her sisters and get back what she lost. Look at the book Warcrimes and the Windrunner comic. Mind you, Sylvanas way of doing so is bringing them to her side instead of the other way around but its a desire that has existed in the lore for ages. Its not some weird redemption like you are trying to play it off as AND in the event of a “Light Forged” forsaken it would probably be an entirely different side not under Sylvanas.
Except its the opposite of what you are complaining about. You are complaining about the idea of Forsaken having free will and that not all of them mindlessly follow Sylvanas unanimously. You are complaining about the fact that there is a different way of Resurrection outside of Death Magic and that with Calia Menethil (primarily, given its what you are focusing on), Derek Proudmore, and Alonsus Faol the story is opening up the story of the Forsaken on the point that not all of them are happy where they are and many want to reunite with loved ones.
I am sorry, if you don’t like the story that is one thing but saying its lore breaking is absurd. Its not, not even close. What it is is lore being expanded upon, built upon, and fleshed out. Not liking it is perfectly fine, but going to an extreme just because you don’t like it?
I am sorry dude but I honestly disagree. I think this lore is fantastic and I am excited to see where this story goes with these three major Forsaken players on the board right now VS Sylvanas.
Also…
UNCANON CALIA, REVERSE LIGHTFORGED NONSENSE
The word you are looking for is “retcon”.
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alot of the forsaken players though, didnt select forsaken because of any of that. they chose it because it looked cool, edgy and scary. and the leader was a sexy undead elf with an interesting back story. so an alliance human female, which blizz has done a thorough job of convincing the playerbase, are just boring goody two shoes with a penchant to go on holy crusades, is naturally not going to impress.
she’s not edgy. she’s not scary. she’s not sexy. to be scary you have to have some reason other than a oh look, its a holy crusader. shes essentially an alliance priest. woooo. they’re scared.
at least, that’s how i’m reading it.
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Except she has no support by the Forsaken to rule. She abandoned them to Undeath, let her brother wage war against the living and now the Alliance is trying to instill her as the leader of the Forsaken with a light born plague that is an offense to the Forsaken’s very core.
The plan makes no sense and the Forsaken have no reason to accept Calia, both as an Undead and as a leader.
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You must be talking about how Anduin brought back from the dead an army of Alliance soldiers, or the class quests for paladins where they resurrect dead bodies in quests, which Blizzard has stated that quests are part of the lore.
I wasn’t worried until they made an actual model for this silly stuff.
As in, a dead and buried subject, but I didn’t quite make that clear enough. I know she was alive until Sylvanas killed her.
Are we going to do this for every race then? Seems generic.
For a group of Forsaken to potentially affiliate with the Alliance pretty much turns their story from being forsaken by others, to this group that “could have went back any time, they didn’t need to be forsaken their family was always there”. That book ruined a big part of the Forsaken, and that’s the fact that nobody in the entire Alliance should care enough to do what happened in the book, as well as the Forsaken should very well by majority not want to reconnect to the living as they have moved on. This seriously, retroactively makes Sylvanas and the Forsaken look a lot more evil, as all of a sudden their darker “necessary” actions are frivolous and unneeded, as others have their arms open all of a sudden.
The main theme of the Forsaken is loyalty to the Dark Lady, and getting the job done. There’s not many dissenting Forsaken represented at all. I can’t imagine that Calia could come close to the throne for this reason, and if she does, well that just means they threw the Forsaken in the trash can because I really can’t picture that anybody picked this race as a playable character for this to happen, and be satisfied from it.
No, I am complaining about them ALWAYS having free will, and using that free will to follow Sylvanas voluntarily for the majority of the story up until one writer decides that’s not the case, oh no, they were actually held hostage, Sylvanas is now this crazy person that, don’t get me wrong, she’s done dark deeds, but the gathering was so overkill that it broke her character and spun it into an “unnecessary evil” zone, where before she was fighting to survive.
Yes there is, and whatever this is, it conflicts with the lore. I can’t see a light undead, because why would that make sense? She didn’t decompose. She simply should have been resurrected, or died, because this has NEVER happened before, and it’s only now happening to literally forge her into a spot where oh, all of a sudden she can relate to the Forsaken! She now knows their plight! You’re telling me no one in all of Warcraft history has ever become a Light undead until now, and so conveniently when the story focus is directly on the Forsaken and the Forsaken only? Not against the big bad legion or the scourge is this power used, but when Calia Menethil, the only possible heir to Lordaeron gets killed, oops, she’s specifically now a lightbound undead? Please.
That’s perfectly fine, let’s just not have that be the main theme, as the Forsaken is a playable race and to turn their lore focus upside down from being actually Forsaken to “we’re all a family again and happy” means they just never were Forsaken to begin with. This development is totally uncalled for, as the Forsaken have been the way they were their entire existence. If people wanted to reunite before, they would have. There’s a reason why they didn’t and it’s because nobody liked them, and that reason now being taken away means that the Alliance did have the potential to like them in the first place but didn’t. This right here degrades both the story of the Forsaken and the Alliance, makes them both look selfish and introverted, and unnecessarily.
Recently raised characters like Derek and Zelling are excused, as those characters needed development.
You got me there, but the word retcon can mean things other than complete removal, and I wanted to be clear that putting her ingame is a massive mistake.
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I came up with the title “Reforged” yesterday, since I could think of what to call them and Forsaken really didn’t fit with what Calia had become.
I mean, she’s basically been reforged by the light, so it kinda fits?
Their game. Their lore. They make it up, they can’t break it. You don’t like it? Oh well.
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Yeah. The way they’re trying to subvert things and make everything grey sucks. It comes off like the new writers are some edgy highschoolers that think they’re deep.
Did they consider how making the Light just as bad as the Void will affect the heroes they spent so long establishing? Will characters like Uther, Tirion, or Velen, as true and pure as you can get, suddenly be considered evil? Will paladins no longer be looked at as heroic pillars of the realm?
The direction Blizzard is going doesn’t look very good from here.
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…As more content is added to a given universe, by different teams, there is always the danger of unintentionally contradicting existing lore. But we have never intentionally done it.
someone may have made a decision 12 years ago that was a well-reasoned, smart choice back then, but boxes us in today… but that’s the hazard of game writing. We have to find a way to live with it and still tell our story.
If you dont get it then thats lolworthy.
Youre talking about lore breaking and think belf paladins didnt do the samething years ago
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Let’s see who you really are!
Pulls off OPs mask
Trying to avoid Sylvanas getting killed off?!
I like the idea …
Open your minds people … everything it’s possible … magic …
I would laugh if the Horde gets LF undead humans 
they carried her to netherlight temple, she was dead at least a few hours at that point.
been saying this about void elves since they were implemented so… guess it’s only fair lol
I’m not overly opposed to the concept of an Calia Brand Undead AR for the Alliance, provided Blizzard DOES make that foundational split occur between those that wish to reclaim their identities they had in life (and COULD be considered Calia’s People); and those that have more thoroughly adopted their new Forsaken identities (these people are no longer Calia’s people in any way). Make the LIGHT element more of an aesthetic thing, and it should be fine conceptually.
On the other hand, the thing that I AM concerned about is WHO their Horde counter will be; and WHERE they will get setup in the World? If they do become and AR … then I honestly can’t think of anywhere else they could end up but Tirisfal Glades and Lordaeron … and if that happens that pretty much garauntees that the Forsaken will NEVER get their territories back. If that is the case … what will happen to the NE territories on Kalimdor?