Don’t think aura buffs are a great idea in pvp, all it does is increase overall damage so the spec feels more pad.
Devs should buff individual abilities instead for better priority damage on st.
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Exactly. Blanket buffs would turn ret into the op spec of the month. We need a dev that actually plays the spec to come and turn a few knobs needed to improve rets gameplay. No ret thats asking for changes wants a blanket damage buff. Its a lot more nuanced than that.
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Have you played templar? I fought a 2300 ret/war/disc two days ago and it was way closer than I thought it’d be.
The ret was templar and they just did a big go every 30s with hoj+bolt+wake/hammer and in between the paladin spammed wog. He did over 200k hps and did more healing than my warlock and it was EFFECTIVE healing. Game was like 8 minutes long before they died.
Kinda makes sense to spam wog since verdict does no damage and just play around the go.
I’ve played both. Templar is just such a clunky pos to play.
I dont think it’s clunky, per se, and I actually like it in pve.
However, it’s NOTICEABLY less fluid than herald where you just get the free DP proc with wake and not needing to have 5 hp makes it was easier to just let your damage be damage with no conditionals.
But also I play boomy which has the most conditionals attached to your damage, so I’m probably noseblind to a lot of things that other specs find frustrating.
It is clunky for a few reasons. One, 5hp spend just feels bad. Two, it’s your hardest hitting ability but you’re better off sending it right away with no crusade stacks to make sure you don’t get kited/cc’d etc. Three, a combination of the above leading to the rest of your crusade window being underwhelming.
They should un-nerf avenging wrath to pair with Templar, that would be insane burst.
This is a super fair complaint, but also creates a lot of room for skill expression, no?
That WOULD be terrifying!
I’m down if we remove sanc.
I’m down to remove sanc if we nerf clone duration by 50% and make getting kicked on nature prevent shifting into bear.
In all seriousness, sanctuary is the biggest reason that ret has gotten the tuning changes it has. You can’t be an unstoppable juggernaut that can also get your team out of CC.
Then you’d need to GIGA buff boomy to compensate, unfortunately 
It already has the lowest self healing of any class in the game and bear form does almost nothing. I’m not sure if people realize this, but bear form is less passive hp and armor than DKs have baseline with talents and veteran of the third war.
With how much cc is in the game it’s amazing people don’t cross the ret when they want something to stick.
DK’s all over the world ams-ing their healer to prevent the trap or any other cc. Maybe we should make sanc a full single target pre-immunity and see how that works.
The biggest difference here is that ams is preemptive where sanc removes it and keeps them on DR. I think sanc could totally be a longer duration and just have the preemptive 60% reduction (or buff it more, even)
That’s literally what I wrote and you quoted lol. It’s funny how sanc is such a forum conspired problem. I don’t see anyone streaming ever complain about it unless ret is overturned in which sanc is just icing to the complaint rather than the body of it.
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Really? I think a LOT of people complain about sanc and old JOTP, even if it wasn’t taken as often.
Same thing happens with bear form all the time. Again, bear form is legit TERRIBLE, but when boomy or feral is broken they say, “oh bear form always available” when it’s less passive tankiness than DKs have.
Sanc is definitely a forum favorite compared to other outlets.
I get what you’re saying, but bear form tends to exist at a point in time because they use it as a tuning knob. Sometimes it’s whatever, and other times every Druid’s answer is bear form → frenzy and they just live through everything. Have to take the complaints with the relative strength.
The way I see it, I look at sanc in the same light as something like grounding totem, tremor, or basically any disarm. In those veins, it would be respectable feedback to say you either have to cross or go the shaman/person with disarm on the go. For some reason, people just complain about sanc instead of doing similar.
Grounding and disarm are proactive, sanc isn’t 90% of the time. That’s the big reason for the complaints. While I think sanc is a unique thing that ret has always had in some form what you’re saying just isn’t correct.
You are here right on queue. What am I saying that isn’t correct? Proactive v reactive is how these spells work, but the idea is the same. Grounding is proactive, but you still have to cc the shaman before you want to land the spell, no? Disarm can be either in the sense that you are waiting for the player to perform some action before you disarm their go. Same idea though, if you don’t want to get disarmed you need to take care of that player. Similarly, you need to consider the shaman before fearing if your concern is tremor.
Hammer of light also didnt follow the same gcd as our other spells. Iirc was hotfixed yesterday.
I agree. Crusade is not fun imo. It should remain a pve talent. Avenging wrath might is the perfect fit for templar ret. It should be unnerfed. It also has a increased healing component, way more interesting and versatile than crusade.
Radiant glory is also a huge problem. When wings uptime is so high then we have no burst. Wings damage becomes normal damage.
I personally prefer templar gameplay with aw:might 1min cd cycle.
Ya dual-edged sword for sure. Having crusade up all the time feels good until you realize that means that you do no significant damage now. Shame, feels really good in PvE but we’ve seen this before with different specs where they generate infinite resources and therefore their spenders are not allowed to do any damage because they’re constantly being pressed. Not sure where they go from here from a design perspective but would be nice if they found something in between two min crusade cd where you absolutely kill nothing without it and having 40-50% crusade uptime but not being able to kill anything.
Also important to note that both avenging wrath and crusade are nerfed in PvP. Maybe first shot at this is to remove those modifiers and see what it feels like.
And honestly it’s worse if you are proactive with it (in non-self situations), which is part of the problem with its design.
I’m not a pro ret by any mean, and just queue for fun and getting elite set most season.
But I prefer Templar over Herald, you have so much more kill pressure pressing Hammer of Light than padding meters with Dawnlight.
Maybe it’s just me, but I feel like Herald has 0 kill pressure
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