Ret Paladins, How viable will they be?

[Pafierra-malygos]

I’m being realistic here and pointing out the expectations people are going to have for the class/spec, that’s all.

You are not being realistic. All that matters is if the player is competent or not. The only guilds that will be able to afford to pass up good players are the top of the top. Like i said finding 40 competent players for your raid group is not an easy task.

Also I’ve seen examples of raids downing bosses and with Ret paladins competing on damage meters. It’s completely doable.

Their is a hysteria about the Ret Pally that i keep seeing here on the forums. People just keep regurgitating the same talking points over and over but I’m not sure they ever even experience Classic raiding. Bringing a Ret pally to a raid is not going to be the deciding factor of whether you down a boss or not.

You’re also quoting me out of context. And then I went on to defend your position but regulate it to a smaller impact than you are giving it.

“All that matters…”

You can’t say…

“All that matters…” and then say “other stuff matters too”.

Maybe I’m nitpicking.

Competent doesn’t (necessarily) get the job done because a competent person can be piloting an incompetent class/spec.

[Slyvaun-moon-guard]

incompetent class/spec.

There really wasn’t an incompetent class in Vanilla but I’m just nitpicking.

[Pafierra-malygos]

Wow, you are really out of touch with reality, I can’t even bother with you anymore.

Whatever you do I seriously hope you have fun and possibly learn something along the way.

I forgot 1.12 the patch where all classes and specs were perfectly balanced, my bad.

[Slyvaun-moon-guard]

You could play every class just fine in Vanilla there were CLEARLY better specs etc, but every class was viable in Vanilla and had their own niche and role.

also u mad much?

[Alsoria-stormrage]

1…maybe 2 per raid if you’re doing quick, server first level progress. If you’re in no rush you can do whatever you want.

[Sinkay-chromaggus]

“All that matters…” and then say “other stuff matters too”.

WTF? What else did i say matters? I did not contradict my point, so i’m not sure what you are talking about.

Competent doesn’t (necessarily) get the job done because a competent person can be piloting an incompetent class/spec.

Its way more common that incompetent players play “competent” class/specs. The competent player is far more rare in WOW. All you have to do is check out LFR to see that. I would want a Good ret pally in my group over a trash anything else 100%. Most guilds won’t be able to find 40 competent players so if you are a good player and spec’d Ret you shouldn’t have a hard time finding a spot somewhere.

Ret isn’t even as bad as people on these forums try to make it out to be, They just heard so many people tell them that so they think they know what they are talking about. I’ve seen Ret be competitive in raids so I’m not even sure what the big fuss is about.

[Pafierra-malygos]

WTF? What else did i say matters? I did not contradict my point, so i’m not sure what you are talking about.

Well that makes it worse LOL!!!

So you are sticking with

All that matters is if the player is competent or not.

???

Because if so, you’re WRONG dude!

World champion NASCAR driver in a 100hp POS car with no power steering or brakes. I don’t care how competent he is.

What aren’t you understanding?

A Moonkin will NOT out DPS a MAGE!!!

(Herp, but wut if the Mage’s mom calls him mid raid to get some noodles and the Moonkins mom’s noodles aren’t ready yet and he can keep DPS’ing)

[Sinkay-chromaggus]

This ish you just typed to me is so stupid I almost feel bad for you. Haha Your NASCAR analogy is so idiotic I don’t even know if it warrants a response. We are talking about Vanilla World of Warcraft not NASCAR. You hit the buttons and stay out of Fire = Boss dies. The game is literally that easy.

What aren’t you understanding?

The irony of you saying I’m not understanding. You literally are not getting my point even though I have clearly explained it to you multiple times now.

A Moonkin will NOT out DPS a MAGE!!!

This is exactly what im talking about, the fact that you typed this is so stupid I can’t even believe you typed it. This is proof you are still somehow unable to understand the point i’m making. How is this relevant to anything i have typed? Would a incompetent MAGE!!! out dps a good moonkin? No they will not cause they will be dead in the fire. I couldn’t make this point any more clear at this point. Get it together.

[Pafierra-malygos]

You have no point, that’s the point dude, I keep quoting you. Here Ill do it again moron.

I’m being realistic here and pointing out the expectations people are going to have for the class/spec, that’s all.

You are not being realistic. All that matters is if the player is competent or not. The only guilds that will be able to afford to pass up good players are the top of the top. Like i said finding 40 competent players for your raid group is not an easy task.

Also I’ve seen examples of raids downing bosses and with Ret paladins competing on damage meters. It’s completely doable.

Their is a hysteria about the Ret Pally that i keep seeing here on the forums. People just keep regurgitating the same talking points over and over but I’m not sure they ever even experience Classic raiding. Bringing a Ret pally to a raid is not going to be the deciding factor of whether you down a boss or not.

There it is, in context.

All that matters is if the player is competent or not.

YOU ARE WRONG. Period, no analogies or examples needed.

Competence is not all that’s needed, you’re delusional and uninformed and inexperienced and not worth trying to educate.

[Leonides-doomhammer]

Yes obviously good for PvP, but more so in a PvE aspect discuss their potential, etc.

no one will want a ret. Better to go holy.

[Alexès-moon-guard]

Follow-up question for anyone that knows. So, Ret Pally is mostly good in PvE for buffs and can barely sustain enough DPS to make the cut … Holy paladin I recall hearing is amazing in PvE… My question is how good is holy pally in PvP?

[Sinkay-chromaggus]

You have no point, that’s the point dude, I keep quoting you. Here Ill do it again moron.

You just think I have no point because you are to stupid to understand it. You are just not that bright I guess.

What are you not getting about that post? The point is that is if a RET pally is competent then that is all that matters because so many players are trash in this game its hard to find 40 good players. meaning a Good Ret pally will be more useful to a guild than a trash player on any other class. This is not rocket science.

How is this so hard for you to understand? haha It so halarious you are literally to stupid to understand such a straight forward argument and you are calling me the moron haha. You stand in fire im sure of it.

Competence is not all that’s needed, you’re delusional and uninformed and inexperienced and not worth trying to educate.

Haha see now you are just completely delusional. I’ve Farmed top tier Raids in multiple expansions. I was in a top 10 US guild in vanilla. Even we had trash players and were farming Naxx bosses. I would of taken a Good ret pally over at least 10 of our raid regulars . You are just so desperate to win this argument that you are making irrelevant, nonsensical comments at this point. If you are as bad at wow as you are at understanding simple concepts like this then you have no business giving anyone advice on these forums.

[Xcentrick-area-52]

wow. i am glad only half the time i play will be on alliance so i dont have to deal with this stuff about pallies in game as much.

im gonna hate pallies on my horde lock though . your cleanse of my dots can screw right off.

[Tâlantyr-zuljin]

I just wonder, does judgment of seal of the crusader can stack if everybody use a different rank?

If yes, that mean it’s a straight +600 holy damage for everyone. All you need is 8 paladin (don’t have all to be ret).

[Aldenel-emerald-dream]

I just wonder, does judgment of seal of the crusader can stack if everybody use a different rank?

Nope. Tested it myself.

[Febrith-azgalor]

Is “lolret” 10 characters?

[Fritaya-azshara (Fritaya)]

I’d suggest checking out the Spelladin thread if you’re serious about DPSing in raids (you won’t top charts but you’re still quite solid if the research pans out) otherwise you’ll want to play Shockadin, or respec more points into Holy if you’re okay healing as well/instead

[Mickymoo-black-dragonflight]

Are rets viable in raids - potentially. If you’re in a server-first prog guild, likely not

Huh? Ret Paladins were in Vanilla Naxx clear guilds. The heck you think your talking about?

no serious guild really took any.

Wrong again. Boy, just because YOU don’t want Ret Paladins in a raid group doesn’t mean they weren’t or that they weren’t any good.

Opinion is noted.

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

Of all the rets you mention Esfand lol the ret that got carried by popularity. And maxed out at about 700 dps in naxxaramas while the warriors and rogues were doubling his dps. He doesn’t use nightfall which is a huge boost to raid DPS.

Anyways on topic, there’s a lot of theorycrafting going around testing a spellpower setup that is doing quite a lot of dps 1000+ along with giving you more mana to do other support stuff. Basically just stack spell power, while using seal of righteousness and the level 30 weapon Manuel crowd pummeler and a ton of consumables. With this setup the full T2 set is actually amazing and maybe best in slot even through all of naxxaramas.

ding ding ding regarding the lolretbull

and yes, Spelladin is legit new meta for the class/spec - and will be even more powerful if Ironfoe goes live with a 10% proc rate so stay tuned!

PS Mourtagh as SPELLADIN also just DESTROYED the lolretbull on the metres this past week even with severe bugs hampering his DPS (Wrath of Cenarius not working and MCP’s bugged with only 2/3 charges working)

https://legacyplayers.com/Armory/?charid=418673

https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/Bosses/

[Theloras-llane (Theloras)]

@Lûnamar-area-52

Shame has nothing to do with it. Retribution as a talent tree is fairly meh aside from some utility. Holy shockadins had better burst for pvp, but 31 point Ret specs will never outperform pure dps specs simply due to the way Vanilla was itemized and how gear sets worked.

Reckoning has the best burst for the class in PvP - a full spell dmg SoR Reck Bomb with Neretzek or Corrupted Ashbringer is the deadliest melee strike in the game bar none:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/484066218911727618/494625628679569408/almost_feel_sorry_for_him.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/484066218911727618/494628461424672788/neretzek_proc_zerker_ouch.jpg

but that aside, there will be a new meta once Classic launches and we’ve already proven it on the beta…

The Spelladin - new Retribution meta for Classic

Courtesy of DexterBravo: Gear competetion - That T2 gear that every pally wants for PVP or RP, isn’t good for holy. But it is BIS (likely forever) for Spelladins. That’s 8 pieces of items that is Spelladin prio, which won’t be replaced in ZG, AQ, NAXX. That’s a lot of gear for happy warriors, casters, etc., that otherwise was wanted by the AP ret. Actually viable DPS most likely (none of us know how Classic will be tuned in the end). Much better than AP ret – more dps, more mana uptime…