Show us your logs pls, stop trolling
Basically this.
At least in the 90+ performance percentiles, Ret is doing even worse than Frost Mages and Subtlety Rogues at this point.
In no way is that “fine”.
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Do you? I was talking about Prot as someone else had brought it up here.
And ret does good in PvP. I talked about prot in PvP and PvE. It does good in PvP at lower MMRs and as FCs with support.
You people asked for Classic and as soon as you get it you keep asking for buffs and nerfs to be made.
Its not a Classic if you keep making changes to modernize it. So it is obvious that you do not wish to play Classic. Go back to retail.
Are you serious ? You do better than a top 5 parse ?
Oh and even then you would do horribly compared to close to every other dps in the game.
But the topic is about ret. I agree that prot is OP, since im a prot pally main, but thats a non argument when talking bout rets.
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Ret paladins still provide a lot of good utility. They don’t need a dps increase
ITT: a bunch of fotm ret rerollers discover their class isnt as good as they were lead to believe from OG wotlk
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But the person who made the topic also complained about prot. I made a direct reply to him complaining about prot when I said that. That was not directed at his ret comment.
OP is saying that ret is terrible, prot is terrible.
Ret was best during S8. It is just around S5-S6 right now. Its not even at the most powerful spot that it was at at it’s greatest.
Ret gets buffed later. Just because you people are not able to one shot players using divine storm anymore doesnt mean it isnt good.
If all you can play is the FoTM then you are not as good as you say.
I can do fine in my ret. Im not complaining here. Only some of you people are.
Rets are good for PvP right now. It is expected that you roll another spec for doing PvE with them such as prot.
Literally nobody cares.
Try playing shaman 2 bad specs 1 good.
Warrior 2 bad specs 1 good.
Join the club dude.
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The fact that i do the same /slightly worse dps on my demo lock (support spirit build) with no enchants and 80% sunwell gear, than i do on my full naxx geared ret pally is frustrating. I knew ret was not solid till ICC but the state of classic and min maxing has pushed ret so far down that with ilvl parses on average around 90-95 i still get declined for heroic groups over a gray parsing dk. But that dk does the same if not more damage.
I dont want ret to be ret-conned by any means but i think what OP said is a solid solution to ret feeling almost useless in casual enviroments let alone competative ones.
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Should just make righteous vengeance apply to all crits from holy damage sources (seals and excorcism crits are currently excluded). Would be a modest increase without substantially changing overall realitive to other classes.
I cant seem to find complains about prot.
Thats stupid. Why should a DPS roll Tank for pve ? And besides that, where to we use all that tanks ?
Nobody besides you talked about oneshotting people.
And ret does not get buffed later, thats simply wrong.
The SoB situation was to discourage people from abandoning a faction for PvP or PvE, it wasn’t really balance in the sense of “X isn’t getting brought, let’s increase it’s damage” but rather recognizing that kind of gameplay design wasn’t going to do us any favors in 2022.
I’m not sure what the libram situation is other than what you just said, but I think both cases are different than actual buffing/nerfing damage of specs/classes to bring them more in line. I think there is going to be a huge can of worms opened up if Blizzard starts playing with classes. Maybe that’s fine, but you buff Ret and Spriests, Elemental Shamans, frost mages, etc are all going to want a piece of the action.
Ya warriors are in a bad spot due to gear. This is essentially fixed next phase just by nature of the ilvl changes. Gratz
Think you are smoking in regards to shaman. Ele is actually solid damage (well above ret/war atm) but is just a bit redundant since demo lock and boomi supply the same or better buffs. Resto is absolutely competitive, but the current content barely justifies bringing healers at all. And its not like youd ask your hpally to flex ret given how useless that would be.
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I linkes the current data earlier in the discussion. I’d have absolutely no problem with moves that brought the bottom 5 or 6 performing specs into parity with the middle of the pack. Comparing us to other low performers and saying they would want buffs too… only affirms that all of them need it.
Feels preety bad play excellent your class and be 12° on metter or even low.
I hope blizzard buff a little the spec.
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I wonder if you are going to post on an actual ret from Classic that is end level or if you are only going to keep posting on a guildless level 10 retail toon with only 20 achievement points that has it’s armory hidden.
You people asked for Classic. Now you got it. And all you do is complain about how difficult it is back to back. You really think Blizzard is going to keep Classic going?
I don’t. all I see here are dozens of posts every day saying nerf this, buff that, this game is unbalanced.
You cant handle Classic. It is too difficult for you. Cant play retail either since you have to post on a hidden retail profile posting about Classic stuff that I keep proving you wrong about back to back.
Ret is a support role for PvE. It was never able to top charts anywhere in Wrath ever. It does best in PvP out of the other pally specs.
I replied directly to him talking about prot. It was brought up first 9 ours ago and then again two hours ago, and then again 50 minutes ago. The OP was said ret is bad turned around and said prot is bad.
Then he said holy is bad. But he deleted that one too.
So me saying he needs to learn how to play a paladin seems kinda correct now doesn’t it?
Ret has really good single target burst in PvE. You will not be topping charts as ret in PvE.
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My point is it just ends up being a slippery slope. It’s a nice thought to think we can just bring everyone else up a little bit and everything is great, but let’s say you buff the lower 5-6 specs and make everyone pretty decent/middle of the pack. Let’s say you buff Elemental so that its SP scales, and bring its damage up so now it’s passable on the meters and the utility it brings isn’t overshadowed by demo locks. Maybe it becomes the new FoTM for the role it provides.
Suddenly Balance isn’t desired because the only unique buff it brings is the spell crit, so Elemental gets brought over them and the rest are brought more naturaly. Maybe Demo gets sidelined later on when it falls off due to scaling issues. Now those people are struggling to find raid spots because Elemental was brought more in line so they’re pissed. They weren’t being brought for their damage, they were just the best damage choise for that utility and now they’re not necessary.
And then again maybe their damage is brought up, but they all still struggle to get a raid spot because they’re still not competitive enough. There’s no good answer here, but it’s not as simple as “Just correct the bottom few specs and everyone will be happy”
If it was that easy Class balance would have been solved quite a while ago.
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What happens to the people that get bumped down to the bottom? Someone has to be there, and honestly Ret pally is a support spec with a TON of utility.
You know as a pally you can keep people from dying to threat right?
Play prot or holy if you want to be S tier.
Rets are utility boys in Wrath sorry brah.
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I’m refreshing my memory on spec utility, going through them and it turns out Ret is one of only three specs that bring 3% raid damage; BM, Ret, and Arcane. BM is NEVER brought to raids, and Arcane is expected to fall off around Ulduar (for real this time).
I doubt that Ret will be shelfed because of that, unless players decide Arcane is a better slot than them for that. The other fairly unique buff to bring is Heart of the Crusader, not sure if Mut is ever slotted over Combat though and Elemental is hanging on by a thread, and they’re going to fall off hard.