Bake it into the basic kit. Change 2pc t10 to something small. Ret is only in it’s current state because it was balanced around having that set bonus.
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Well, it aint classic anymore anyway.
So might as well
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patchwerk isn’t very forgiving and people are trying to get max uptime, it can happen /shrug
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I’d be willing to take a trade. Nerf Holy PvP, in return for Ret buffs in PvE.
Either way, I agree that ret could use some love. Maybe rework a talent so that your critical hits with Crusader Strike and Divine Storm have a 100% chance to reset the cooldown of Exorcism.
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Well i should reiterate that:
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skipping out on ret, even in this tier, is still both stupid and dumb as you lose out on useful utility. You can probably even have 2 rets and still do just fine as long as the raid is decently competent.
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in pvp, if you play ret like you would a warr/dk/enh, you are doing it wrong, and you deserve all the flame you get.
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Agree on both points!
I love RET regardless but the extra healer in the guild will help. I won’t be whole sale abandoning it but its a path of progression that is slower than other DPS specs.
I’ve always enjoyed how WotLK Ret plays, even back in the old days. I’ve been playing Ret Paladin again since just before TBC Classic launched. However, running on current patch version, the numbers really are just not there.
We are getting to a point where even Subtlety Rogues and Frost Mages are outperforming Ret Paladins. And the gap will only get worse in Ulduar, when we no longer have Holy Wrath, auto-crit Exorcism, and Glyph of Sense Undead to help prop up our meager numbers. I know I’ve had guild raid leadership “suggest” I reroll to DK for Ulduar.
Ret was a spec that was consistently nerfed throughout Wrath, because they wanted to keep the spec’s burst damage under control in PVP. So, as others have suggested, we are largely balanced around a tier set bonus that we won’t have for at least a year.
I really don’t think it would take many significant changes to bring Ret up to a respectable place.
Bring Crusader Strike back to 110% damage (up from 75%), but keep the 4 second cooldown.
Let Holy Vengeance apply on all melee hits instead of just auto-swings.
Bring back Holy damage Divine Storm. Maybe bring it down to 100% weapon damage.
Let Righteous Vengeance proc on more than just Judgement, DS, and CS crits.
Let Art of War also reset Exorcism’s cooldown, since we already have some empty GCDs in Naxx and we will have even more in Ulduar when we can’t use Holy Wrath.
Either way, Ret is nearly the bottom of the barrel and our situation is looking to get worse in Ulduar. I understand Fury and Arms are struggling too right now, but at least they can look forward to advancing in the upcoming phase, where Ret with stagnate.
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heres a change, disable prot pally in arena. then we can talk 
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I know you guys are talking about ice cream BUT LETS GET RID OF CAKE. WHO’S WITH ME!?
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I know I am.
Pie is clearly the superior baked dessert.
Now that you mention Prot Paladin, I do feel a little sad when I see my Shield of Righteousness crits hitting for nearly twice what my Ret attacks do.
you should!
I think the post was more along the lines of their observations as to what players are doing rather than players need to come forward to get buffs. Players have been doing that since Classic where warriors/rogues dominated everyone else, and I’ve seen plenty of other classes ask for buffs to make them slightly more competitive.
I think it’s fairly unlikely they will actually do any real balancing TBH, they haven’t thus far, and despite them saying they will consider it I don’t actually see them doing anything until it becomes abundantly clear that certain classes just aren’t being brought because there’s a lot out there that people thought was going to happen, and it never did.
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Well, they did throw Ret a bone in TBC by making SoB cross-faction. And in Wrath, by letting us get the Savage and Hateful PvP librams.
But right now Ret is looking to be worse than even Frost Mages and Subtlety Rogues. That’s pretty bleak.
So I’m actually gonna hop in here in support of some minor tweaks that should help, without significantly affecting paladin in pvp as far as I can personally see (I’m no arena junkie, but what I have in mind doesn’t affect burst much if any.) I’ve been following the stats week by week, and in reality the options Blizz has IF they decide to follow through with their own balance statement quoted by the OP are simple: Nerf the people at the top or buff the people at the bottom. Seeing as how nerfing would be hurtful to a lot of people, that means buffs. People can complain about prot or holy all they want, but those aren’t ret. Their role is not what ret’s role is. PVE or PVP, a holy being OP doesn’t really affect a discussion about ret, and makes no sense.
Now, that said, the buff direction I would support and suggest is a single mechanic change, and then numbers changes:
- Allow Crusader Strike to stack Seal of Vengeance/Corruption. This will allow Ret to hit stacks a little faster, reaching DPS “cruising speed” a little sooner.
- Increase the weapon damage percentage portion of Seal of Vengeance/Corruption somewhat, but ONLY at max stacks. By not increasing the damage on it for stacks below max, it hopefully prevents large swings in arena balance by not greatly increasing burst early in a fight. Adjusting it perhaps to 40-45% instead of 33%, it would be a significant increase to our sustained damage potential without being “too much.” And by focusing on the percentages, it can be adjusted easily if it IS “too much.”
- Increase the “Vengeance” talent from a 3% damage bonus to a 4-5% damage bonus when fully talented. Again, percentages can be tweaked, and by increasing this talent a little it would be small increments that apply primarily to sustained output. In the resilience heavy world of arena, Vengeance stacks are already at a premium to acquire, meaning the arena balance SHOULD be minimal if any.
It is my belief that Blizzard SHOULD keep their word on this balance, since they’re adjusting item levels. And to do that, as stated previously, either nerfs or buffs would need to be done. It is my belief these changes should be small and tested to be sure they work without swinging too wildly, and that a buff is better for the community than nerfs. These are my thoughts on HOW to achieve it, and realistically they shouldn’t be enough that ret becomes dominant, while also bringing ret up out of the basement, AND not likely making it overly strong in ICC.
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Well said, I like it!
I agree i feel pretty much useless in raids, why would they take a Ret at all is pretty much what guilds say
Also, a link to the most recent (as of this writing) rankings in DPS. This trend continuing would not be healthy, I feel. The gaps are simply too wide.
Personally, I’d add Judgement and Divine Storm to the Holy Vengeance stack procs, but overall I think you may be on the right track. There is no good reason at this point for our Vengeance talent to be stuck at 9% max.
I still think bumping Crusader Strike back up to 110% damage would also be a good buff. Right now, it’s just a sad attack.
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This guy and his dumb axe at the end of every post.
It should be embarrassing for the Blizzard team to realize that they didn’t figure out Ret would be very bad with the last patch balance changes but without the gear to compensate for it.