doesn’t even have to do as much as arcane 80% of a arcane would be nice. but arcanes are single target beasts I dont see rets beating them easily. I’d be happy if we gained a lil 800dps bump considering were projected to be 1200 dps lower than arms warriors next phase.While fury is projected to sky rocket with ulduar ILVL.Most people who are reasonable minded don’t want to see an abyss of deficit dps on one of their classes between the next lowest 
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Fair, but at least making it so that we stay about the same of a DPS loss compared to Arcane as Arcane is from fire so that the obvious answer to keep X buff isn’t just “well, make a fire mage go arcane.”
if you want to play destro you literally can and its performing WAY better than what ret is. Atleast try to use a better example.
Check WCL. Destro is doing 2k more dps on patchwerk than the top rets. every single lock spec is viable. every single druid spec is viable, every single dk spec is viable.
Your entire post misses the point that Ret DPS wasnt like this in original wrath and players are being punished for tank pally and holy pally being good when dps players dont want to play that role. Then you have a crazy amount of people in the community celebrating players getting screwed because blizzard is lazy and doesnt want to take the time to fix their game.
Theyve already overhauled the classic experience. your argument doesnt hold any water.
3 Likes
you actually blew my mind with your stance amazing bravo! from a deathknight too!
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If you want to campaign for Destro to get buffed, I wouldn’t begrudge you that. We know tht it is disheartening to see a spec you enjoy ubderperform.
However, the situation is a little different compared to Ret, in that each Warlock spec is a different flavor of the same role. If you had to, you could change spec and still fulfill the same role and keep your raid spot. Ret Paladins don’t have that advantage and there are fewer spots for tanks and healers.
Additionally, while Destro does lag behind Demo and Aff specs, it does still do respectable damage compared to other classes. You would arguably be better off bringing a destro warlock than a Ret Paladin.
Ret Paladins just want to do similarly respectable damage, instead for sub-pvp spec damage. Projections of Ulduar gear seem to suggest our situation is just going to get worse as even Arms Warriors will leap frog over us
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My guy, who cares about what you can do in this joke of a raid tier? The tier has been buffed by 30% and it’s still a total joke. You can pretty much bring any raid comp you want and as long as everyone can at least breath out their mouth the content will fall over for you. Current raid performance is not indicative of what is to come and if you actually believe that Destro will be fine going forward then you are just uninformed because I promise you that specs like Destro, BM, Sub, and Frost mage will have lower representation than Ret because they’ll be abandoned. They simply won’t scale and that will start to show on fights that last more than around a minute.
I don’t celebrate it, and I don’t think most people really are other than we’ve now had a very long conversation about this and there’s a very loud ret community not satisfied with the state of their DPS, and those people are tired of it so they lash out.
Given Blizzard came in and clarified their stance on how they perceive class balance your approval on my argument seems irrelevant.
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My guy maybe you are brain dead or just slow so i will spell it out for you. All the specs you listed are all legit PVP specs with TWO other DPS spec alternatives in the same role.
Destro - S tier PVP option, with Demo and Affli for PVE
Frost Mage - S Tier PVP option with Fire and Arcane for PVE
Sub Rogue - A tier pvp option with Combat and Assassination as the PVE options
BM - A tier PVP option with MM and Surv as PVE options
then you have ret, which has ZERO pve dps spec options because theyve killed it. What is so hard for you to understand about that? Ret dps players have zero recourse outside of abandoning their characters entirely to change classes.
You are right about one thing though, current raid performance is not indicative of whats to come. thats because Ret is going to get even worse than we see now and fall even further behind with the iLVL updates. If you want to claim you are informed you legit need to understand this.
great you dont celebrate it but you are legit blind if you dont see the countless people in this thread, the previous thread and the two reddit threads all happily crapping on rets like they deserve this. Hint: they dont.
Your argument was about overhauling the game. Theyve already overhauled it. No RDF, Heroic+, ilvl increases, badges from quests, layering, etc. Your argument was dog water and the blue post doesnt change that.
Aggrend was literally in the pally discord saying " I understand that the place you want to be is an attempt to be made to roll back individual changes to put all classes in a relevant place they were in each individual phase of wrath. You can believe me, or not, when I say that would be prohibitively difficult. We’d burn a lot of development resources on it, and you’d probably not be happy with where we land anyway."
Thats blizzard saying they are either too lazy to fix the issue or too incompetent to find a solution that is viable. it has nothing to do with not wanting to overhaul a game theyve already overhualed. again you argument is dog water.
3 Likes
We run with 1 fury/1 arms warrior and 2ret Paladin. Have yet to see any issue with them. Even got glory of the raider.
An while it’s sad they(I include myself in that) don’t have bigger numbers. We will shine later on and we still bring good stuff to the party so. I’m fine with it
thats great that you are fine with it but you realize thats because you know you scale as soon as Ulduar comes out and dont have to wait til ICC to be relevant.
Especially when Hard modes are about to come out and will require dps checks that bringing 2 rets wont let you hit.
Rets need to stop complaining, there’s always room in my gdkp for one or two ret buyers
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How big a flash do you require from rets
Again, it’s clear as day that the classic dev team doesn’t know what they are doing, and the classic players are to blame for why the game is in it’s current state. If I was being honest, the dps should have a base line, or an average dps and those specs should be based around that set number and let them be an option for raiding. Say the average a dps should be doing is Arms warrior ds. Should there be differences between the classes/spec? Yes, but it shouldn’t be miles apart. And tier sets should be a buffer to be better, not miles apart better. Same can be said for both healing and tank roles too for that matter.
This is why I think classic, tbcc, and wrath should have been changed from the beginning. This would have let players play whatever they want, not a raid roaster meta/cookie cutter build. And for arguments sake, would have let a paladin been an actual tank instead of it being a spam lower rank spells to keep aggro in aoe.
And in all honesty, I never trust blizzard on delivering a “classic experience”, if they did, they would have done changes to how classes worked because they didn’t know who to do mmo’s back then and how to “properly” build a class’s talent tree.
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It doesn’t matter who’s to blame, the sheer incompetence of the development team who are more worried about PR nonsense because many of their devs and VP decided to touch and harass interns while drinking on the job, instead of worrying about actually fixing serious problems with the game. You can’t blame the players for what the developers have been doing for a decade because this goes back before Classic, this goes all the way back to the Activision-Blizzard Merger, we see that clear as day with the statistics of active subscribers PEAKING during Wrath and only dropping since that point(obviously it peaks every quarter that launches an expansion, but the players don’t stay).
There’s a reason they started to hide how many actual players are playing the game and if you read the updated fine print of how Activision-Blizzard counts Monthly Active Users(MAUs) they count EVERY log in source for every account as a MAU, example: I log into WoW on my laptop when I travel, same month I log in on my PC, I log into the mobile guild chat on my phone; thay’re counting that as 3 MAU’s. If you think that’s absurd, that’s just the beginning, they count MAU’s for EACH game seperately. So if I log onto Classic and Retail on both my laptop and PC that’s 4 MAU’s, if I log into hearthstone on both and my phone, that’s 7 MAU’s. The whole scheme is the problem, they’re more worried about tricking investors to look more profitable than they actually are.
Blizzard and the development team, regularly say “what hurts the most is people saying ‘we don’t care’” but the reality is if they did care, they would do better. They give the same PR nonsense every single expansion since WoD:
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Alpha/Beta feedback entirely ignored, devs do whatever they want
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Expansion launches filled with game breaking bugs, systems that require absurd amounts of gameplay that players don’t want and regularly talk out about(Legiondaries, weekly gating AP, Azerite Armor being a boring mess, and Torghast as examples)
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They put out a statement saying that it’s a “player problem” and that they’re not going to do anything about it
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Players quit in droves
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They make a new statement saying that they’re going to do some changes, but it’s going to take a few months so “be patient”
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The changes they end up doing come in a major patch, doesn’t fix any problems, causes new problems, and gives the illusion of “we listened to you guys, see!”
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Players continue to leave
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Blizzard makes a new statement saying “oh, we dropped the ball, sorry, wait until next expansion, we learned so much from you guys(the players)”
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Return to Step 1
This has been an ongoing problem with Blizzard development, they say they care, but they show everyone how little they care when they make statements saying that Ret is fine because Holy and Prot are strong, when in the same statement said that Ret “gives an exclusive buff that only they and BM Hunter brings” completely forgetting that Arcane Mage also brings the same “exclusive” buff while doing almost double what Rets are doing right now, then has the AUDACITY to lock the thread 3 minutes after they posted in the thread while deleting 95% of ANY new threads that were coming out related to Ret Paladin.
So please don’t blame the players for Blizzard being lazy, unmotivated, and money hungry. Because if they put even a fraction of the effort they put into covering up scandals the game would be in a much more healthy place.
5 Likes
no matter what blizzard does people will always min/max and follow tier lists and pick the S tier specs over the A or B tier DPS not everyone plays that way but some do and nothing can change that.
We will never truly re-live the “Classic” experience the games are solved for most part learn couple new things with each xpack release but as for comps and DPS people know the strong specs and abuse them hence why theres so many DKs and HPal
aside from SoM (if they do it again) is only time we might see class and spec changes but i wont hold my breath for that
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Please just quit and form your own gaming company. You obviously can run a better company and we’d love to see it!
The even bigger issue here is private servers players begged long enough to bring back previous wow expansions. We are grateful for this. Blizzard, for the most part, has given a decent product. Then people when their spec or class isn’t as high of dps or viable as others they race to the forums and complain and moan. You really should take a step back and realize they are not required to do anything and complaing about something that has already been decided on is just a hard pill to swallow. It would be wise that all you ret boys on these forums complaining like this learn a life lesson here: you cant and wont always get what you want.
Go outside, write a letter, work on a new skill, do something that makes you feel proud of yourself. Get off these forums and do what the tooltip says: everything in moderation, even wow.
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Wait … there are moderators?
All they need to do is alter T8 set slightly so that set bonus gives a similar effect to that of icc set and boom, sorted
Ideally, problems that are intrinsic to a spec or class shouldn’t be patched up with set bonuses.
Not when there are easy knobs they could adjust within the spec to adjust their damage. They could increase the damage bonus on the Vengeance talent from 9% at 3 stacks to 15%. They could increase the Righteous Vengeance DoT from 30% to 45%. They could increase Two-Handed Weapon Specialization from 6% to 9%. They could adjust the CS and DS damage on Art of War from 10% to 20%.
Just saying, the simple methods to adjust the output are already there.
Buff warriors and allow fire ele to reset. My guild just resummons our shamans after they q a skirm to cheese a fire ele reset.
Sure, these seem simplistic, but it’s not actually that simple. Reason being they have to watch what they tune because buffing something like Two-Handed Weapon Specialization or Vengeance would just be the issue that original Wrath had with Ret being too overpowered in ICC. If they buff Seal of Vengeance dot then you run into a situation where T9 could be stronger than T10(obviously I haven’t simmed to see the values, but this is just hypothetical). They have to adjust the class in a way that future-proofs the class as well
1 Like