ICC has nothing to do with Ulduar. If we buff you now we will have to nerf you in ICC.
Not really. Ret BIS is projected to just be middle of the pack in ICC. We shouldn’t have to be nearly worthless for over a year, just because we’ll be respectable in the endgame.
all of this right here is why you don’t deserve to be buffed
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Lol
TO
THE
GROUND!
you are truly a sad human
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You scumbags deserve to cry for rolling classes based on raid parses only.
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Elemental Shamans have that slot locked up as far as I’m concerned. They literally only get worse from here with no light at the end of the tunnel.
And if we are talking about specs there are plenty of other dead raiding specs out there that offer so little utility they’d never seriously be considered if someone wanted to main that spec; BM, sub, destro, frost mage, etc.
A ret paladin offers two buffs that are in short supply on top of contributing to blessing count for the raid. Providing santified retribution is powerful enough to where if you are the one providing it you’ve entirely justified your raid slot, not to mention HoTC.
Ret is in a fabulous spot in utility ways, but obviously lacks in the direct damage role. The fact that your community has convinced yourself that your spec is absolutely the worst of the worst is flabbergasting.
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why though. why stay the lower DPS spec to try and “phase” out rets
They’re not trying to phase out ret, no one is out to get them.
Buuuuuuuuuuut if you are trying to optimize your raid the current debate is if slotting an arcane over a ret is better. The fact that the arcane loses so much damage by not being fire is a moot point because they’re fulfilling the role of the ret so all they have to do is outperform them.
However ret does provide HoTC which is another buff in short supply so it may not happen. Not sure when rogues go Mut, I think they are very gear dependent.
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A Prot Paladin can easily pick up HotC.
With a spec like that.
They can also get Improved Might, but you would give up on the 3% damage reduction from Blessing of Sanctuary on the classes that want Might instead.
only scum bag is you. imagine feeling that strongly that you are spending your time trying to crap on other people.
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Ret should be nerfed more now so they aren’t too strong when t10 comes around.
The amount of terrible takes from people who are just bias against paladin players is crazy.
Im of the opinion that there should be solidarity among the community when it comes to things like this. Id rather see the player base happy over my weird feelings that other people should suffer because they chose to play a class.
Especially when rets have a legitimate gripe on the nerfs they were dealt throughout WOTLK and balanced around items that arent in the game and wont be for 90% of the expansion. The response from blizzard is dumb on multiple fronts.
Id respect them more if they just came out and said they realize its a problem but it would take too much work to try and fix it and they wont because thats the real answer, NOT because Prot and Holy are good. No Ret DPS player cares if the role they dont play is good.
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yeah arcane mages give 3% damage too AND more damage. lol
I don’t know how viable that is, and I think these are lots of hoops to jump through to cover bases just to get the ret out of the raid. Furthermore this level of coordination is not realistic in the pug life as now you need an arcane mage and a prot pally using a specific spec just to avoid bringing a ret. Bringing a ret and moving on is a path of least resistance even if it’s technically a worse play.
I think Rets getting shelved in organized guilds, especially higher up ones going for speed clears, is a very real possibility. Where Blizzard gets it right is not trying to balance around them because it makes no sense to try to make the game work for those people as they just adapt to the next best thing.
I’ll grant that Ret’s situation might be pretty unique considering how things played out in OG WOTLk versus how Classic has been designed, but this template has been the situation since day 1 so the situation isn’t unique in this regard, they just got dealt a bad hand.
Ultimately you have other classes and specs that never got to shine in Vanilla/TBC as well so there are probably a few others that got shafted as well that flew under the radar. If the community was really concerned about this issue I feel like they should have brought up other classes in Classic so rogues and warriors didn’t just decimate everyone else, and the same for TBC.
I think what Blizzard really does not care to do is open up the can of worms of helping any spec out, and I totally get that. They help out ret, and elemental wants love. They help out elemental and BM gets some love, and suddenly class balance has gone all out of whack, and the FOTM expansion classes become average so they’re pissed, etc.
Like it’s nice to think we can make a few changes to make some lower performing specs happy, and keep overall balance the same, but it’s never worked like that and it never will.
Nobody who wants to play any specific spec cares if the others are good. If people love BM they don’t care that MM or Surv exist. Sure, it’s a little better for them cause they are still performing the same role, but we now have more defined rotations so spec enjoyment is a much more real thing than ever before so telling a Destro fanboy to just play Affliction isn’t going to appease him in the same way that you being told to go heals doesn’t appease you.
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Thats the whole crux of the issue. you dont get to dismiss that out of hand. Rets have no other option than to change roles or change classes entirely. they dont get to choose from multiple relevant dps specs. You have to acknowledge thats a legitimate point of contention and blizz’s response fails to address that.
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In regard to the Prot spec, it would be entirely viable to have your Prot Paladin take HotC.
Most Prot Paladins want to spec down into Ret to pick up Pursuit of Justice, Seal of Command, Crusade, and usually Vindication. To get that far down, they’re going to have to put points either in HotC or Benediction anyway. Though, compared to the spec I posted, many would also drop Improved Devotion Aura for Reckoning, because the Holy Paladins in the raid will usually get it.
If your Rogue wants to go Combat and you have a Prot Paladin tank, the Prot Paladin loses almost nothing to pick up HotC.
So… exactly like what happened originally? (You also forget the nerfs in Ulduar and ToC.)
Yeah thats fine.
Revert all the nerfs/buffs and progressively re-add them every time a new raid tier drops as it was originally. We were continuously kneecapped every patch until Blizz felt bad and gave us a good set bonus in t10 to keep us from dropping completely out of mid tier.
Eh, not really. If I was a destro fanboy would you have any sympathy for me even though Demo and Aff play differently and have a much different theme to their spec?
I mean I get that if someone says I want to DPS and I like paladin, then they get to max level and realize it’s not a hot spec to bring they feel like they’re screwed, but that’s also a choice they made. If you want options play a class with options, if you don’t want those options be flexible on the roles you will play.
You only set yourself up for failure if you pigeonhole yourself into one spec and ultimately you’re creating your own criteria here by saying you only have one option.
What bone I will throw you is that Blizzard’s logic here would not work in Retail, but Class balance has not been a pillar of Classic design since it launched. Since Classic launch they’ve let the worthless specs/classes flail while letting the OP ones dominate.
Unless Blizzard actually wants to get behind overhauling the Classic experience, which I think some people don’t really want, then Ret is no more special than any other spec that has been shunned as of to date.
Well, part of the issue here is that blizzard is trying to force their “classic experience” ideas onto more modern expansions now in ways that are making them worse.
Blizzard at the time was active in trying to keep classes in the same league as each other. The only specs they did shun were the “pvp specs” of the pure DPS classes because those had other options in the same role.
When specs largely don’t have unique raid buffs to set them apart, it becomes more important for them to have parity on DPS with at least the other specs that can bring those buffs. (it doesn’t need to be meter topping)
Sometimes it gets fixed fia itemization, like how warriors improve just by higher item level gear, which is being accelerated.
Rets don’t catch up to the pack with the current set of nerfs until we get to icecrown gear with some pretty crazy effects, and that still isn’t going to put them at the top of the meters. (Not that it has to)
Blizz seems perfectly willing to be messing with the tuning of the game in Wrath. They are just weirdly doing it to everything but class ability tuning.
So… Overall… Ret should probably be around the level of an arcane mage in DPS, so that guilds aren’t incentivized to drop a ret for a spec bringing the same buff that just flatly deals more damage.