I’m glad that you had to go back to TBC to find out an example (that is not the case either), but if you wanted to stack 10 melees for Vashj yeah you would’ve a problem at some point. You’re confusing “suboptimal” with “really bad” comps to justify a bad argument from your side.
Once you are geared enough there is no fight that need you to stack some classes, but some people are aiming to do that for Yogg 0, so I see the desperate rets from some semi-sweat guilds coming to the forums crying they have to roll warlock for Ulduar initial weeks.
I’m not confusing it. I’ve repeatedly said that rets are suboptimal at everything they do in 25 man raiding.
Outside of 25 man raiding, their utility coverage has a lot more value to it, and their other utilities matters more.
It’s specifically 25 man raiding where they are the worst.
Is the worst still good enough to play the game? Sure. You won’t fail to kill pretty much any boss just because you brought a ret (or even mostly rets).
It sucks for those that want to play ret at an elite level though, because it’s not a role the class can fill at the elite level right now due to patch changes that happened later on in the expansion being applied from the start, and unfortunately, we don’t have the rage feedback loop that warriors have that help them gradually catch up with better gear. It’s kind of a binary effect from a late game set bonus.
Somebody is always going to be on the bottom though. My preferred spec is Destro and its the lowest of the warlock specs but I’m not going to campaign for buffs because I understand that we can’t all be the best.
If you wanted to be a performer in raids you should roll prot or holy or if you enjoy playing ret continue to do so and wait until ICC comes when you are better.
Ok, but again, you just described the problem. You can play aff or demo to do more damage. I can’t just “roll prot or holy”. Tank and healer spots don’t just magically appear out of nowhere. Either ret does passable damage, or the ret gets benched for a dps that does.
Ret does passible damage though. You just aren’t at the top of the meters. Nobody outside of the sweat lord guilds (which the game isn’t balanced around) will be benching Rets over their dps.
Yeah, it’s just one of many examples of places where classes can choose their weaker DPS specs to keep a buff that ret would bring while still having a large advantage over the ret in DPS.
There is obviously always going to be a weakest DPS, but rets are fairly significantly behind the middle of the pack.
If we were talking a 10-15% difference from the top, it wouldn’t be that bad, but it’s closer to double that.
The issue isn’t that rets aren’t viable. Even frost mages and subtlety rogues are viable. There’s just no reason to bring them over other things if you are aiming for a perfect 25 man raid comp.
And queue people saying one spec/class is trash because of gear reasons.
If anything, this just proves more that blizzard won’t do anything till later on. Watch, when icc hits, paladins are going to destroy every class and if you aren’t a paladin, you are a joke. Then paladin will have to be nerfed, again.
But this proves the player base and the devs are both out of touch. No one should care about parsing. Just play what you want to play. End of story. It’s why I hate TCG so much because there’s no “soul” behind a deck. Same with how players play wow, no soul to it. Just DK number 49017 parsing 99.
I mean… no. The entire issue is we’re balanced around the T10 2p. Just give us a nerfed version of that baseline and make the actual T10 2p just bring it back up to normal. The net change would be a small buff for T8/9, and zero change for T10.
I literally posted that in the original post, lol.
Not really. We are very nearly the bottom of the meters and we will be the bottom in Ulduar. Subtlety Rogues, Frost Mages, and BM Hunters are already starting to surpass Ret Paladins. Only Arms Warriors are consistently below us at this point and they’ll be above us too in Ulduar.
Rogue damage wasn’t all that bad in TBC. I played a rogue, and regularly found myself at the top of the meters. The problem with rogue was that everyone and their mother wanted glaives, and also, groups were so pigeonholed into ensuring a shaman for each group while also ensuring proper buffs. Since rogues didn’t really bring much else, that really screwed them over. But the damage gap between what is right now, and what it will be in Ulduar, isn’t even close….
