And no tank needs the paladin to spend every GCD healing them or they die. If the fight does require that level of healing, there’s basically no raid damage going out and all healers are on tanks like on patchwerk.
It’s not even a big deal if JoL isn’t up.
It’s clear that you’ve never actually healed a tank if you think that they have no time to judge. At worst they just don’t have 100% uptime on light, which… Doesn’t matter.
None of this changes the fact that leaving out a ret from your raid is a minor inconvenience at the cost of thousands of DPS from a better DPS spec, and there’s nothing that ret brings that can’t be brought by someone else that does their raid role better than rets can DPS.
At this point why even bother bringing buffers at all? Yeah, just go ahead and stack 18 warlocks, 5 hpals, and 2 prot pallies at this rate.
Also still disregardinf ret scaling to begin with. Either we go off private server data, in which rets scale fairly well anyways, or we dont, in which every discussion about scaling is moot anyways and no one will know what will truly happen unless they work inside blizzard.
You bring buffers, just the ones that are better than ret at the roles they do.
Every important buff can be brought by holy/prot paladins, which are near best in class at their respective roles.
Other, higher relatively performing DPS cover every other buff ret brings.
There’s literally no reason to bring a ret in a min/maxed 25 man raid comp. Every buff is already covered elsewhere, so DPS becomes the only thing that matters, and ret is objectively the worst in that arena until icecrown.
If you are bringing a ret, it’s because you aren’t really concerned about being optimal. That’s fine, but it doesn’t make ret good or valuable.
We can already sim the magical scaling that will go on. It doesn’t catch us up to anyone until icecrown, where we get a 40% chance to reset our divine storm cooldown on autos.
Ret is balanced around having a set bonus we won’t be seeing until the end of wrath, when the first time through we had a higher DPS seal before that was introduced.
Which is about 90% of raid teams. Only the sweat lords are going to sit Rets for low dps and those types of players tend to have 3-4 raid ready alts to switch between anyway.
Blizz understands this and thats why they aren’t going to waste dev time buffing you when you are more than fine during ICC.
Again, why do people keep asserting “everyone knew this”? Not everyone made choices based on parsing data and tier lists and crap.
Some people just picked what was fun to play and the simple reality is that it’s not fun to play ret when a core mechanic that your entire spec is balanced around is missing for 75% of Wrath.
If you are playing the spec to have fun it shouldn’t matter. You are talking about playing the spec to top meters though, and if thats your idea of fun there are plenty of options available.
Yeah, that’s true. It’s not much of a consolation for people that like to be useful, but are bringing a grand total of zero useful things to the raid.
Lowest DPS cap
Low skill cap
All buffs covered elsewhere by those that are better in the other categories.
The ret doomsaying makes sense from that perspective.
Eh, there’s some evidence to the contrary when blizzard does stuff like our out pre-nerf fights like vashj/Kael that do exclude a whole bunch of the suboptimal setups.
At least wrath doesn’t have many fights that are specifically DPS checks.
I don’t have to be to acknowledge that players in guilds that push to do stuff like that are left in the cold because paladins aren’t a good or particularly useful DPS class in those raids.
Ret is fine if you don’t take the game seriously is a lame argument.
If you are bringing a ret for replenishment, it is better for your raid DPS to be literally any other DPS spec that brings it. If you want more than one, you bring more than one non-ret source.
In every raid team with competent players. The top end ret damage is bad compared to less well executed DPS specs out of other classes.
If you are talking equal skill swaps, it’s never optimal for it to be ret.
If you aren’t looking for optimal, sure, bring a ret, you’ll still kill stuff.
But the more well known that becomes, the more people exclude rets out of principle, like how people don’t let you into their heroic dungeons without a 4k gear score.
Lol its so funny how on Skyfury i believe at one point 40% of the server was paladin just to play ret … seeing them be absolute garbage is hilarious to me.