Misinforming people about how ret scales, even without set bonuses, and downplaying ret utility, while making bs claims about prot pala and hpal stacking in competent raids, is dishonesty.
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Pretty interesting given how silent these crybabies were when rogues were a joke class in raids throughout the entirety of tbc.
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Maybe, but none of these things apply to anything I have said.
Ok.
But their damage isnt gonna be that bad in T8, despite what many of these clowns claim, plus their utility is still just as useful.
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As long as people pay money for a monthly sub, the discussion is never over. It’s easy for people who dont agree to voice their opinion, or ignore the posts.
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Most of Ret’s issues exist entirely in 25 man content, where just about none of our utility matters because of buff overlap with other much stronger DPS classes, leaving DPS as the only thing to measure us by, which, is the worst by a decent margin, and doesn’t get better until icecrown.
Outside of 25 man raiding, ret has a lot of strengths that make it valuable.
If we had just one utility in ret that wasn’t easily covered elsewhere, being last place on DPS wouldn’t feel so bad.
Instead, we bring nothing of value to a 25 man raid while being stuck at the DPS level of dedicated pvp specs of classes with other options that can leave us in the dust without trying.
Really the best approach would be to just do something like give us seal of blood back until we get to the late phases when it got taken out, or revert some of the other nerfs temporarily until we get into the later content that necessitated them. As it stands, we are largely balanced around gear we won’t see until the very end of the expansion.
Warriors suffer from that too a bit, but benefit a lot more from the ilvl boost of Ulduar.
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Feral DPS was and still is on life support.
Ret Paladins are not. Based on the population of Ret Paladins alone, it’s crystal clear they’re doing just fine.
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What is this bs?
- 4 blessings exist, which by the way are far better than their alternatives as they are long lasting and therefore need to be micromanaged. Prot pal is already gonna default to sanc for the damage reduction which leaves wisdom (hpal), kings, and might. Most raids will only take 1 hpal, generally no more than 2. So there’s room for at least 1 ret, assuming a prot pal exists at all.
- Two judgements to maintain - light and wisdom. Competent raids will only run 1 prot pal as running 2 is both stupid and dumb. And hpal should ONLY use judgement to maintain JoL on themselves as they need to save every GCD for spike damage. So you have room for at least 1 ret there too.
- You always need multiple sources of replenishment. Frost mages and destro locks are already a no-go in raids, so that leaves spriest, ret, and surv. And surv is slowly gonna get phased out in T8 as more arpen gear rolls around anyways.
- Aura mastery is a completely busted cooldown. One that prot pals will NEVER take. And running more than 2 hpals is just dumb, usually 1 is enough.
This is of course, completely ignoring ret scaling, which scales phenomenally with strength, and quite decently with both agi and crit (keep in mind that paladins gain more crit per point of agility than any other melee in the game btw - so some leather/agi gear is quite useful on them).
The sky is not falling on ret; on the contrary, they’re only gonna get better from here on. If ur not getting invited to raids its because there’s a better ret already. In which case: this is a l2p issue.
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Ret paladin is balanced around either 1) seal of blood or 2) toc/icc set bonuses.
without access to those, ret cannot thrive, let alone even tread water.
a simple solution would be to revert the nerf to crusader strike and divine storm that happened in original wrath until ret does have access to those items. as it stands crusader strike is quite possibly one of the weakest strikes in the game.
their team is excellent at curating pre-nerf raid encounter experiences. i’d like them to also surgically curate some pre-nerf specs as well where it makes sense(obvious prenerf death knight would be a disaster)
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Without a prot paladin 3 blessings exist. Wisdom is overwritten by a Mana spring totem, might can be brought by a holy paladin or warrior, kings can be brought by any paladin, and sanctuary is negligible because most of it doesn’t stack with kings anyway.
Without a prot paladin, if you have a resto shaman, there are basically 2 blessings, both can be brought easily by a holy paladin that is better at their role than ret is at DPS.
Or, if you have a warrior and a resto shaman, 1 effective blessing (kings) that can be brought by any paladin. Ret doesn’t have access to sanctuary to fill in that one.
So blessings aren’t a compelling reason to bring a ret. You likely already have everything covered by bringing a holy and a prot paladin, which are excellent at their roles, unlike rets that are pulling up the bottom in DPS.
There are basically no fights that don’t allow a holy paladin to spare 1 GCD every 20 seconds. The prot keeps up wisdom, holy easily maintains light (which is hardly imperative to keep up anyway given how low impact the healing is in most fights). Again, not a compelling reason to bring a ret that can only do 2/3 the damage of a competent dps class.
A second shadow priest would be a better choice than a ret here if optimizing your raid. It brings better DPS with that replenishment. Everything else a ret brings can be covered elsewhere.
It’s really not all that busted. It’s good on fights with silences, and otherwise… Meh. It’s a low impact cooldown. A ret is likely better off going deeper into prot for divine sacrifice at the cost of damage that we aren’t really able to do anyway.
With my 25 man raid comp, which has 2 holy paladins and 2 shadow priest and a resto shaman, literally the only unique utility that I bring is a demo shout effect so that our bear tank doesn’t have to apply it for our DK tank.
Now, in 10 man, rets are super valuable, because you have so much less buff overlap that getting everything a ret can bring in a single slot is huge, and absolutely worth the low damage output.
In 25 man? It’s jokingly easy to optimize your raid without one.
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Blizzard said hold this nerd Ret, so you’re going to have to hold that bro.
Have fun healing warlocks
You bring ret so that warr and rsham dont have to maintain battle shout and mana speing totem you doofus. So that warr can focus on sunder armor while shamans can maintain healing spring totem, or use mana tide totems in emergencies. How is this hard to understand.
You absolutely never played hpal before, let alone any healer, because this is very dumb.
All you have done so far is list off dumb hypothetical situations that are sub-par solutions in reality just to suit your own victim mindset so your spec alone can recieve buffs you absolutely dont deserve.
This is one again of course, ignoring scaling you neglected to mention, and before you throw the “private server data is invalid” argument at me, i raise you: are you gonna tell me you know so much about blizzard’s math and coding you already are 100% certain rets will still be bad in T8?
Im done wasting my time with this.
Yes, that 1 GCD they save every 2 mins is definitely worth the loss of DPS from bringing a ret.
And again, holy / prot can cover the required blessings easily. There’s no need for a ret. The rest is costing you thousands of DPS for a minor convenience.
I’ve mained a healer through several expansions. Literally none of the fights in them GCD lock you that hard that you can’t weave in a judgement that is still doing healing.
Claiming that you can’t is like saying druids are useless healers because they can’t possibly spend time applying HoTs that don’t instantly heal because the tank might die!
Again, you are giving up thousands of dps for a convenience.
You can already plug the gear into Sims and see exactly where ret will be in Ulduar and grand crusader. It’s not pretty. No need to use the magic of math. So yes, still 100% sure that rets will be the lowest DPS spec of any PvE damage spec until icecrown.
reported this for spam
you people are sad
you lay comatosse on a pile of holy and prot flavored filth, stuffing your face in multiSpecced epics and rather than being satiated you point a chubby finger covered in saliva towards ret and choose to moan and tantrum over it not being ‘good’ (It was NEVER GOOD and it got the axe the second it stepped out of line)
disgusting
Well, yes ret, because improved might. Holy pallies buff wisdom tho, they generally take improved wisdom.
I mean… have you? Maybe you don’t get free GCDs on a fight like patchwerk when the tanks are getting demolished, but the vast majority of fights it’s easy to weave in a GCD for JoL. Especially when you consider the fact that if nobody is judging light, it’s your single highest throughput button. Maintaining JoL is more healing than literally any other button a holy pally could press.
I’m not gonna touch the rest of your comment cuz like you said, this is a waste of time and adds nothing to the conversation, but it’s important to remember that just because you don’t feel like you have free GCDs, it doesn’t mean everyone doesn’t.
Very low IQ comment. Rdruids are best suited as raid healers, not tank healers. Thus why I said:
JoL healing is the same for both hpal and ret. Its must eaiser for ret to maintain JoL than hpal. Though im not surprised you think hpal JoL healing yields higher numbers when its not the case in reality.
Rets will always be the primmadonas of WoW, actual baby spec.
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Ret does need a buff
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What about us gladiator warriors? We are at best at tank dps and easily the lowest rated. Wheres our buff?
I suggest devastate and shield slam doing double damage when attacking from behind to get us back up to at least the bottom dps specs.
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Bro you literally quoted me. “if nobody else is judging light”. JoL obviously does the exact same healing regardless of who judges it.
Obviously ret maintains it better. Wisdom is a higher priority than light, tho. Plenty of casters need the mana sustain, and faster kills = less healing needed.