Sure, if by every you mean I showed evidence (with your help) that the ratio is the opposite of what you claim. I gave 10 links of threads about MSV to your 2 about MSV with RSV in them. Granted yes, there are more than 2 examples of that, and there are even some large threads talking about MSV, but I didn’t feel like scrolling down through thousands of threads to find them. And I could have found a lot more than just 10 examples of threads only about MSV.
So tl:dr you’re being intellectually dishonest trying to claim that the only or even the main reason that MSV doesn’t get changes is that MSV isn’t allowed to be discussed because RSV people keep derailing threads.
I blame both of you. And just ask it to stop, and redirect for constructive criticism, toward and educated and welcoming conversation.
But like really. I think if other races coulda been demon hunter, and survival remained range; all yall melee survivals woulda jumped.
Beyond that, stupid statement i just made. Perhaps they could make this melee survival, both ranged and melee. …Follow me with this…
Equiping a two hander = carve (5 target w/ bleed on main target) and strike
Equiping a bow = explosive shot (5 target w/ dot on main target) and arcane shot
Add Black Arrow spec wide
Add Lock and Load to proc for Explosive Shot and Carve.
I made a post before saying the 45 row could easily accomodate DW options; ranged options and 2 handed options
Surely they could offer the type of flexibility and keep it relatively balanced
I also started playing survival in legion because it seemed to more closely resemble old school unholy more so than unholy did, plus you could jump around
Also I recon they could just make it if you had an bow on it would just turn wild fire bomb into explosive shot
You are saying to make DW/Ranged a talent, or that Mongoose Bite could be Mongoose Shot? Functionally i dont think DW would change the spec much at all, except for appearance aspect; but it would also make gearing your Melee Survival spec more difficult, a problem that fury must now worry about.
Oh no they could add a DW support talent, 2 support talented and a ranged support talent on the 45 row
I think what I said was they could make a DW option for more pet damage/aoe; 2 handed for cleave and ST burst and ranged for big dots and multi dot, something along those lines
I mean yes, but no. That creates 3 specs in one essentially. The dynamic of classes and specs in wow are based on those 3 factors. Looking at Warlock for example; Destro = Single Target w/ Havoc Cleave, Affliction = Multi Dot and Big Dots, Demo = pet damage/aoe.
With that, BM = pet damage/aoe - the current case. MM = 2 Handed ST burst and cleave - the current case. Survival = Big dots and multi dots - Devs messed up (not current).
I would say the one class that doesnt really follow this is Mage, but I havent played mage to comment much on it
Trying to find some common middle ground here…
Flank Strike is a talent. When was it Kill Command? Was that the legion version? Sorry i literally played it for a few dungeons/levels and went BM/MM.
If anything the pet should have a bleed like component for survival. Replace Butchery Talent with a Pet/Player Thrash ability. Blood Seeker is already like a Rake ability.
Pet should be a supportive utility to the Survival Hunter not a Necessity nor ability based component. The survival of the hunter should not be reflect on the capability of the pet.
I don’t think, personally survival needs many changes I think it just needs additions to clean it up a little - to start
I’d like to see more ranged options later on down the track (we have the skeleton of it now with arcane and steady shot)
I’d like to see it be made more viable than it currently is now with out going insane with a huge rework and getting it to a good state then re add range stuff back to the kit once they get it sorted out
Realistically though they could have made a range support talent in this xpac with black arrow but instead they did almost nothing
In MoP, there were about 10-12 abilities as well as passive effects which differed MM from RSV.
In WoD, slightly less than that, although many of the decisions made for RSV in WoD were based on their then-current focus on pruning coupled with how they were already working on it’s Legion-redesign to a melee spec.
One other thing you seem to overlook here is the fact of current class/spec design.
How we’re supposed to have options to further delve into our chosen fantasies/themes.
Yet you’re willing to suggest that they should essentially turn MM into 2 sub-specs with no room for additional depth beyond the base mechanics of each thematic approach, while all other specs can do so much more than that.
They said as much yes.
Although considering the reality of the actual historical design tied to each spec back then, it’s far more likely that they tried to use this line of reasoning as an excuse/attempt at a justification for said changes.
Anyone who actually bother to look at each Core Spec and their abilities would know that they weren’t the same/did not work the same.
And even if that was the actual case, such arguments would still fall short simply because of the change in philosophies going forward.
Each spec needed more to distinguish themselves from one another? I mean…that was the basis for the paradigm of spec design as a whole anyway, in how they went forward.
Why not do the same with RSV as with everything else?
This is why such arguments fall short.
Re-check which topic you’re currently posting in…
If anything, you’re the one doing exactly that.
SV in Vanilla wasn’t designed to provide a defined playstyle.
It simply focused on adding situational utility and defensive improvements to the base class.
BM talents focused on improving pets and bestial aspects.
MM focused on improving our ranged weapon.
All three categories relied on the gameplay of the base class.
Fully understand what you’re saying here.
This is precisely why so many of us who want RSV back, are so passionately pursuing the return of it as being our end-goal.
people forget in mop and wod every spec had the same talent tree. it’s also funny because he says baseline rsv only had 4 mechanics when baseline msv has 0 mechanics. the spec without wildfire or mongoose bite is a joke.