What? Because Explosive shot wasn’t the focus? Are you for real? The mechanics of RSV were all about getting procs of explosive shot via Black Arrow and throwing up dots. How can you look at Legion MM and not see a bastardized version of RSV in the whole vulnerable proc thing? It was very clearly an attempt to push RSV into MM and make them both into a singular playstyle, which failed… spectacularly…
You’re misconstruing again.
“Fires forward a slow-moving projectile that damages enemies within 8 meters when detonated upon re-press.”
- Is that RSV Explosive Shot? Does it have anything in common with the gameplay of RSV Explosive Shot?
“Inflicts the target with a DoT, summoning an undead pet capable of taunting enemies if the target dies with the DoT active.”
- Is that RSV Black Arrows? Does it have anything to do with the gameplay of RSV Black Arrow apart from being a DoT?
If not, then you’re calling it an attempt at something that it obviously had no intent to perform.
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No, you just fail to comprehend things…
No, it’s clearly a version of explosive shot designed to be more in line with MM seeing as the core and most iconic ability of MM is aimed shot, and the RSV explosive shot doesn’t work with MM, thus is was redesigned. As was Black Arrow. MM focuses on physical damage, so pushing elemental damage into MM wouldn’t work, but RSV did rely on RNG a lot more than MM ever did.
Vulnerable was their way of trying to marry the two playstyles and it was overwhelmingly rejected.
So, they said something, designed a spec that clearly took inspiration from both MM and RSV, and your big argument against it is that “they made two RSV abilities talents that didn’t function the way they did in RSV”. Why would you expect them to function the same way as they did in RSV when they’re being put into MM which focuses, again, on physical damage and having them in their RSV form wouldn’t work for the spec they were going for?
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You’re honestly going to tell me that Vulnerable was somehow the descendent of RSV’s Lock and Load?
But they didn’t. As you just described with ES and BA, every ability given to MM that took a name from a former RSV skill was built solely around MM. They had nothing to do with RSV’s playstyle.
And Vulnerable is not Lock and Load. It was even described as a way to maximize the “grassy knoll sniper, working towards that opportune moment” theme of MM. That it relied on RNG does not somehow make it RSV. Seriously, what the hell?
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You’re aware blizzard pretty much decided that survival was functioning too much like marks and BM and that’s what inspired the change to melee right?
Let’s just clear that one up
Yes, I am aware that they are stupid.
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What you bring Dawnspririt in your arguments, is one of the primary reasons I feel bringing back ranged survival is a must as well. The few times I’ve tried marks since the change I haven’t liked it overall a few talents choices are left over stuff from Survival, which wastes a Talent slot that could be used for other things.
I look at the unpruning they did for Pally’s which gave my pally back 3 spells that used to be talents, and added two Azerite traits now as talents. Consecration, Hammer of Wrath, and Wake of Ashes are now all baseline skills, with Empyrian Power now a Talent as well as Sanctified Wrath.
I made another post concerning the Legendary Item that basically equates to our old explosive trap, I accidentally said fire trap in the title. Yet, why not actually include that, since they didn’t unprune the old traps, as a talent row for all hunters similar to the Affinity Row for Druids, that gives the hunters at least an additional choice for a trap, either explosive, fire, or snake?
As far as the old Talent from WoD that was specialized Ammunition and building a spec around it. Well in many ways that was old style of Survival anyway it being somewhat specialized with a couple different ammo types/shots that the other two specs didn’t have. What also made the specs play similar is that Serpent sting used to be baseline for all hunters, that is no longer the case, and iirc cobra shot used to refresh the sting for survival hunters, were it wouldn’t on BM.
As I said in another post also, the current version of Survival Melee hunter, isn’t drawing from any lore found in the game as it is carbon copy of Diablo 3 Demon Hunter, from cross bow to throwing bombs, and it plays like it also, with now sharing Beast Master hunter’s unique ability of kill command to generate focus? So how is it once again not playing similar to BM in that regards?
Currently, BM with it’s set of spells and abilities, and Marks with it’s current spells don’t really share anything, that play at all a like. The two specs now do play differently, and they can now revamp Survival, using the idea of ranged Munitions to separate it from the other two ranged specs so it will play differently as well from the other two specs. Yet in doing so, hopefully brings Marks back in line with the fantasy of that spec better, and do away with the Diablo 3 Demon Hunter being in WoW.
Two considerations there:
- Do you want to be using Immolation/Explosive Trap on CD as MM/BM/MSV? Because that’s the idea behind making it baseline, no? You’d want to at least a situational use for it. And that button would be there regardless of the Lego.
- Tar Trap and Flare take, between them, two GCDs, but the Legendary’s power can be compensated accordingly. Having that direct and instantaneous option— atop requiring an extra button and now having conflicts whereby you’d wish to use it on CD if Focus-free but also to hold it for adds for greater total output over time—would cause it to generally deserve a bit less power.
It’s still got an awful lot of pig-huntin’ in there to be a D3 DH copy…
If that is the argument, then “they are stupid.” Survival was more icon than Marks ever has been. Marks is literally, “I have bow, I shoot bow.” “I have shot the bow so much, that i know how to aim it well.”
Survival was an all around better dynamic and identity; originally taking away the melee moves from Survival to make it a melee spec was an idiotic iteration/change. Survival was Range with Melee backup/situational, now its Melee focus with no range necessity at all. In my opinion, it could be well as melee but make it an AOE/Dot spec. Black Arrow and Serpent Sting (poisons) for main target dots, explosions for AOE [traps, arrow, bombs], and then physical carve/strike (possible bleed?). Survival based more on pet usage than it should be. Kill Command should be BM only. Coordinated Assault is a cool dynamic/mechanic but still blah, thats a pet based ability. Pet based ability should be BM.
If the reason for Survival to be Melee was its “functioning too much like marks,” now it’s function is too much like BM. The identity of BM is you tell the pet to kill the enemy that you are shooting at. Survival is (now) you tell the pet to kill the enemy you are slashing at, with a spell that goes “let’s do this together bud!” Oh, and you can make the target smell bad so the pet enrages to kill it harder.
I mean that isn’t the idea of it, but also I’d be fine with Fire Trap/Explosive trap to be 100% an on cooldown aoe/situational. So sure.
GCDs are literally the biggest complaint of any class, every player hates them. But, yes they could adjust numbers to make two GCDs worth it. Still a horrible idea. At that point just make the legendary cause Flare to Explode upon impact Causing fire to affected enemies… and leave Tar Trap out of it.
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I don’t know what spell your talking about that marks the target smell bad and the pet enrages
I’m also so bored of these posts from people who can’t stop living in the past and are hamstringing any attempt at making current survival better and derailing every conversation about survival
Guess what, I used to be a combat rogue main, they completely 180’d the spec and turn it from an extremely consistent damage profile to a slot machine and made it a pirate that comes out of stealth and fires a gun instantly
I moved on, it might be time for you to do the same
Wildfire Infusion Talent = Pheromone Bomb: Kill Command has a 100% chance to reset against targets coated with Pheromones. Whether or not you take the talent its there. . .
In our opinion, this would make current survival better. Also, some of the suggestions are to just add more ranged capability to current survival. Adding Explosive Shot, Black Arrow, Lock and Load back into it, and lastly, fix the Mastery.
Explosive Shot: You fire an explosive charge into the enemy target, dealing X to X Fire damage. The charge will blast the target every second for an additional 2 sec.
Black Arrow (WotLK): Fires a Black Arrow at the target, increasing all damage done by you to the target by 6% and dealing X Shadow damage over 15sec. Black Arrow shares a cooldown with Trap spells.
- or just
Black Arrow (Cata/MOP): Fires a Black Arrow at the target, dealing X Shadow damage over 20sec. Black Arrow shares a cooldown with other Fire Trap spells.
Lock and Load: You have a 100% chance when you trap a target with Freezing Trap or Ice Trap, and a 20% chance when your Black Arrow deals damage to cause your next two Explosive Shots to cost no Focus and trigger no cooldown. Effect lasts for 12 sec and cannot occur more often than once every 10 sec.
You gave up. We don’t want to give up. We have hope and determination to correct the change, and have our opinion heard and acknowledged.
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That doesn’t enrage the pet; that makes the kill command reset
And I don’t care for your suggestions, kick and scream all you want
literally wrote “enrages” italicized for the purpose of saying that it is enrage-like. Resetting the cooldown on kill command (a spell name as “kill it now!”) is at the least aggressive and rage-like. Thus italicizing the word is [word]-like. Not literally enraging but; if you were to attack someone and then began to attack harder and more aggressive, would not not be enraging to some extent?
you are just nitpicking to get comments in.
Cool you don’t care, do you feel more adequate saying that and making your comment. This is a forum, it is Literally for addressing opinions and concerns. You may move on from this thread then, and bring useful comments and conversation elsewhere. Thank you for your participation in continued and valued commentary to this point.
That’s not even nit picking, it wasn’t the functionality of the spell
And your posts are wastes of time when we want to get the spec improved for the people playing it and to entice players over that aren’t playing it
Having to deal with this whole RSV every thread is annoying as hell when we are just trying to improve what we currently have
I’ve lost all most all the spec I’ve enjoyed to reworks
Combat got turned into outlaw
Unholy got turned from dot damage and beefy scourge strikes into a demon warlock with plate
Mages got turned from casters into proc fishing instant damage classes
I get your frustration but it’s damn well time to let it go
Oh hey, this stupid and easily disproven argument.
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You say that but made no attempt to do it
Lets start here, its not a waste but im understanding your perspective more now. Clarifying, you like the melee aspect? Fine, i don’t HATE it. I’d just like a more ranged vibe to it. Perhaps adding back the three spells into a cooldown rotation, and even removing kill command and coordinated assault.
The spec would become roughly a guerrilla warfare fighter, jumping in and out of melee, leading the enemy to death with explosions, traps, and poisons.
There is nothing i understand more than this. It is the reason there is a drop off of subscriptions and players each expansion. We all hope to have our beloveds return, and come here to the forums to vent and discuss. I think everyone hates when they prune or do these class changes as mentioned.
I do think there could be some aspect of middle ground for Survival, where it is both ranged and melee. The current melee spec of survival is not even used/taken in PVE content, and for those that say it is, then not on un-farmed content.
Yeah it might be because we have a whole bunch of people saying that we shouldn’t be running survival despite the fact it did more damage than rogues last raid tier and had one if the highest single target damage profiles in the game with corruptions - because it’s melee
It’s performance pretty decent all round and I think we would have seen way more of it if BM wasn’t just insanely powerful and we didn’t have to swap azerite junk around which limited our ability to swap
It needs its stereotype erased and I swear if blizzard gave it a slight bit more attention than it would more than likely be a very usable spec
Damn thing is just to neglected by the devs to get a chance to shine
I’m almost sure most people picked it up in the first patch to check it out, it played like rubbish because they didn’t have enough haste and didn’t take the right build then thought it was crap for the rest of the xpac
Oh, you want me to find you the links to threads talking about melee survival and only melee survival?
Lazy bag of bones…
Let’s start with this thread. It’s not really feedback, and has some mention of MM, but the closest it gets to talking about RSV, is someone intentionally trying and failing to summon Bepples into the thread. You’re even in this thread amusingly.
Confessions: I actually enjoy Survival - Classes / Hunter - World of Warcraft Forums (blizzard.com)
Or here is one talking about one of MSVs legendaries, you’re here too.
Survival Hunter SL Legendary - Butchery - Classes / Hunter - World of Warcraft Forums (blizzard.com)
And this one talking about the covenant choice for Survival, and what do you know, you’re in this one too.
Survival Covenant choice? - Classes / Hunter - World of Warcraft Forums (blizzard.com)
Damn man, you are just everywhere in these survival threads.
Dual weilding survival - Classes / Hunter - World of Warcraft Forums (blizzard.com)
He apparently made the same thread twice.
Dual weilding survival - Classes / Hunter - World of Warcraft Forums (blizzard.com)
Another thread talking about current survival with you in it.
Try to raid with Survival Hunter? - Classes / Hunter - World of Warcraft Forums (blizzard.com)
How is survival hunter? - Classes / Hunter - World of Warcraft Forums (blizzard.com)
Yes RSV is mentioned off handedly in this thread, but not as a “bring back RSV” type way, and more in a “This is a possibility of what’s going to happen”, because this was back in september and people were still wondering why MSV was getting no changes."
We’re up to 9 at this point. Shall I continue? Or are you convinced?
You’re aware you linked a bunch of threads that just were questions relating to survival right?