It’s hardly an issue in raid, but like most things in the category is an issue in M+.
Looking at the top Eranog log I mentioned earlier, the player casted Slice and Dice a single time the entire fight. Of course it isn’t going to feel annoying if its an ability you press once for a 3-minute encounter (or longer), but having to reapply it every other pack in M+ if you get unlucky with rolls as outlaw is annoying.
Looking at the top damage run for an outlaw in Algathar Academy, the player casts slice and dice 11 times in a 30 min run, about the same cast per min as the Eranog fight. However, if you look at the casts, the time elapsed between the second and third cast is 18 minutes, meaning they got really lucky with roll the bones rng. All of the other casts are within ~50 sec of each other, meaning that everypack S&D had to be reapplied outside of the 18-min window.
Just looked at the top Sub log for Algathar; that player casted S&D 33 times in a 31 minute dungeon, meaning essentially once every pack while having a 92% uptime. That’s an absurd amount of times for a button that does nothing meaningful.
Yeah S&D is pretty obnoxious. It’s not too bad in raid or mythic plus as outlaw because the duration will likely stack up super high at some point, but it feels absolutely terrible doing anything solo where you have downtime.
it doesn’t have an actual visceral immediate effect, it’s just a buff that you don’t notice until after looking at logs. This typically feels bad gameplay wise. It’s the reason they added a direct damage component to blade flurry a couple years back. Maybe they could give similar treatment to S&D
unlike RtB, you often can’t precast it prepull. You have to build up combo points and delay lower priority direct damage finishers. This is particularly obnoxious when you aren’t chain-pulling and have to put up a fresh buff every fight. Rebuffing mid fight is not nearly as obnoxious as having to put it up as one of your first finishers at the start of a fight.
it’s on the GCD. Most raw buff type spells are off GCD and feel a lot better because they don’t delay actual direct damage abilities. Examples for rogue being adrenaline rush and shadow dance.
It’s a trivial buff to keep up, my weakaura warns me when it’s about to expire and in its pandemic window, my uptime is usually like 98%+. It adds nothing to the gameplay loop and detracts from the actual feel of the rogue rotation. I’d rather it be rolled into a passive and attached to all finishers. If you want to add something else to replace it that’s more interesting to use to maintain “complexity” or “reduce homogenization” I’m perfectly fine with that.
You can only blame the vocal minority in the Rogue community. They’re the ones that pushed for them to bring it back. Slice N Dice had been removed. I enjoyed Rogue during the brief period SnD was gone.
Agree. Been playing a rogue since 2008 and let me tell ya, I’m very tired of that ability. It needs to go away. It doesn’t feel right in the 2023 version of this game.
For Subtlety, SnD directly increases energy and combo point generation through Shadow Techniques, translating into more Eviscerates, more CDR on Shadow Dance, and smoother Dance windows.
On Outlaw, SnD increases energy regen through Main Gauche and Fatal Flourish, leading to higher combo point generation, and thus more CDR.
For Assassination, SnD’s attack speed increase gives you more poison applications during Envenom and Shiv windows for more damage, and drastically more potent Kingsbane windows due to Kingsbane’s damage increasing with each lethal poison application. SnD makes Amplifying Poison stack faster, and makes Dragon-Tempered Blades more potent since all four of your poisons will be applied more frequently. SnD translates to increased energy regen with Dashing Scoundrel, and it works together with Rupture in Lethal Dose.
Not to mention how SnD makes Wound Poison stack faster and gives healing over time with Recuperator.
SnD enhances the entire class. If you don’t like it that much, all 3 specs have talents you can take to extend its duration. Just practice using it.
Feels completely fine to me.
I opt not to talent into Cut to the Chase because I enjoy SnD in my rotation.
Literally everything you mentioned occurs whether or not you have Slice and Dice up, Slice and Dice simply makes those things happen more often. Nearly all of Rogue’s passives are attack speed based, which is why Slice and Dice couldn’t simply be removed, the attack speed needs to remain in some way.
Hitting Slice and Dice, the actual button, does literally nothing for you; only the attack speed does.
Not really. I haven’t raided in about a decade and my highest key is +6. I have no delusions about how hard I try in this game. Most of my time spent is trading. If sweaters want to sweat they should have the option to push themselves to their class’s limit. I like SND as a mechanic because it rewards people who play well. If you don’t like how a class plays then reroll instead fighting to get a class completely changed just for you. I would suggest you play a fury warrior if you don’t like how rogues play. Are you the kind of person who goes to parties to tell everyone else to stop having fun because you don’t like parties?
If by “play well” you mean “is not afk” then you might be right.
In raid, an equivalent to SnD would be druids having to be in combat to cast Mark of the Wild.
Feel free to look at logs yourself so you can see how ridiculous your “play well” argument is; one of the top 5 logs the player didn’t even cast SnD, but had a 93% uptime since they rolled Grand Melee on their pre-pull Roll the Bones.
That’s what i love about Affliction, so many DoT’s, so many numbers… so many timers tho, but still not a big deal, haven’t mained it since BFA but Aff is really the only lock spec i thoroughly enjoy mostly cause they can cast while moving for most of their spells, so the rogue rotation + SnD really doesn’t bother me any,
If it’s a Passive cool, if it’s not still cool i can work with it either way.
If you really are a mind reader like you claim then you’d know you’re the extremely loud minority and most players don’t want their classes homogenized and pruned even more.
Again I reiterate, if you don’t like rogues gameplay, reroll instead of trying to ruin it for the people who do like it. You’re not forced or obligated to play this class.