How does a timer bring challenge?
Just remove the front door.
Let everyone leave when they want.
Got your crayons ready?
Time limit means you have limited time.
Means you gotta get moving, think on your feet.
You dig?
2 Likes
yea I get that but anything else or just race to the end
The timer is part of what makes mythic+ difficult. Thereâs nothing difficult about sap square, sheep circle, trap X, (or whatever variant of raid marks a party used to mark cc targets) and then pulling mobs one at a time. I guess they could always make everything in a mythic+ dungeon immune to cc, but I imagine the qqstorm for that would be off the charts.
2 Likes
An actual condition where you fail, requires you to optimize routing, meet minimum throughput amounts, execute the fights and your rotation well. You know, difficulty.
Thatâs also why raid encounters have an enrage timer, it ensures you perform well or you wonât clear the fight, instead of being able to indefinitely heal it and eventually have the boss die.
ok ok interesting so what happen when you fail?
and I can see the challenge with how you explain it still more less just sound like a speed run though I do agree if the timer were taken away they would have to do something like put enrage timers on the boss or something and unless healer have change alot since legion wouldnât they run out of mana at some point.
trying to figure this out Iâve been gone since legion and was a heroic raider and though I sunk my foot in M+ back then wasnât a big fan of the set up but never felt like I was force to do them either so I just ignore them.
The gear can be left on the lower key level, since this essentially turns it into a practice key. The vault can still trigger without the time, but you would have to push higher timed keys to get better gear anyway, so even if they finish an untimed 10, they still have to make it a timed 10 to push it to a 12. The idea is to freeze the gear level the same way you freeze the key level. Itâs purely for practice without the punishing effects of bricking keys.
Its not even a âspeed runâ. If anything, its an indirect death counter.
A timer ensures you arent pausing for cds, and that deaths matter. Either the time penalty or the run back. Deaths matter.
A timer ensures you are playing your class at a decent level.
You dont have to be worried about speed running typically. Just playing well and moving at a steady pace. Remove the timer, and you remove the need to play well. Bosses are only a small part of the dungeon experience.
Healers occasionally have to drink, but that is also some of the impact of playing well. If your dps isnt taking unneeded damage, and your healer is healing efficiently (akaâŚplaying well), then there are less stops for a healer to drink. Generally speaking. Remove the timer, and a healer can blow his heals every pull. Playing inefficiently because he know he can drink up every pull if needed.
I would like to see the timer stay but just increase the rewards for beating the timer while keeping the current rewards when you currently plus even if you fail. Aditionally, the key does not depleat. That gives people incentive to stay even if the key is going to fail.
In summary, two pieces of gear is guaranteed drop but an additional piece for plusing; the current amount of crests when you plus when you fail, but there is a small bonus amount when you plus; finally, the key level does not lower unless you ask the npc to lower it, but what key you get is still random upon a plus.
Im also down for a completely new system because the game feels stale in general.
No, if the key doesnât deplete then there should be no failure rewards.
No, there should be better incentives for players to complete keys.
There should be incentives to succeed. The incentive to complete the key, which is already extremely generous, is that you get full loot, vault, and more crests than most raid bosses on a bricked key. Stop bricking keys if you donât like the glut of rewards given on your failed run.
I have no data to fully disprove this (apart from commenting that assuming the millions of key runs are mostly* from players who feel they must do M+ is silly and baseless), but I sincerely doubt it would be as undramatic as you suggest.
At least for me, I know I would leave permanently if M+ was removed.
is the time penalty per death or per wipe and what happen to a key if you run out the timer.
I would disagree with the bosses being a small part they should be the reason your there, there the challenge figuring out there abilities thought I guess they wouldnât change that much from heroic but then there the affixes to add to that, the trash is just that it can be difficult but more or less some in the way from point A to B.
I guess this wouldnât mean much after muscles memory come into play but then I see a new problem, burn out. Being an ex raider even I would get bored and tired of said content after 10,20 or god forbid 30 kills, how that not happen
IMO as long as choices exist and 1 of them is perceived as better, ppl will always lean toward that preferred choice.
In the context of your example, ppl will likely still leave becuz they want the loot, their time valued AND the score that comes with plussing it. They STILL dun wanna get involve and ââwasteââ time if they dun get score out of it. There will eventually come a point where dropped loot are no longer upgrades for these ppl and scores become the main driving factor.
As it is right now.
And if itâs not their own keys, they could not care less anyway, even if keys do deplete now. They just fold their cards and leave. And in your example and they key is theirs? They will just opt to fold in as well and restart earlier, despite the fact that they might be 70% in and can clear it untimed in another say 15 mins.
âPlease remove the skill requirements for this mode.â
No.
2 Likes
I like the timer its good to have it to see how good to progress
Failed run? I think you mean successful completion. You just didnât beat the timer. So no score for you, so sad.
I think completion keys are still very important and necessary for a substantial part of the player-base, especially early in the season when timing 10s is still difficult for many.
Iâd suggest when you put in the key that you have to choose between completion (current system as-is) or timed (key immediately ends with timer, no depletion). I think this would fix a lot of problems across the board, and still give the player some autonomy on their goals.