Seems rational to me also, and it’s a little more liberal than the more conservative TBC approach where you’re limited in types and no world buffs.
Not to the mention, the Lotus situation affected all servers. The Dispelling and Purging of World Buffs seems to only be a problem for PvP Servers.
The reality is that Classic =/= vanilla.
I’m not a huge fan of world buffs in a guild leadership position because individuals who really care to parse spend all day getting the buffs to come to raid, log during trash fights (which wastes time and they have to be summoned), and then ignore mechanics during bosses. Then if you wipe, the morale of the raid goes down the toilet. All for a number on a screen. In my opinion, good parses do not equate to being a good player. It just means you can get buffs and stand in one spot and smash your buttons.
However, like I said: Classic is not vanilla. The game plays differently now. We have all evolved as players (a lot more min/maxers now, surely), and our prior knowledge of the game cannot be erased as someone mentioned earlier. Some people continue to log on and show up for raid because of parses.
Personally, I agree with you. I get world buffs to help clear faster, and to see if I can break my own personal bests. Some people are just really competitive, I guess!
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They should make them unpurgeable and maybe limit to 1 or 2 buffs in raids.
I was unable to find a guild that did raid completely without world buffs. So I wasn’t finding what I was looking for. It’s understandable and reasonable that’s most guilds not mandate the world buffs, whole realms coordinate these world buffs for when they are going to go out. So most likely if you log on at 7pm and your in SW or Org your going to get it. It’s the majority mentality of today’s raiders to get as many world buffs as possible. It seems extremely unlikely to find a guild abiding to raiding without the world buffs, at this state of the game. Only way I see this type of guild existing in the current state of the game, is if it is created. I’m sure during the recruitment phase of the guild there would be a lot of ridicule for finding like minded individuals who would want raid without them. I may have to try this out and see how far I can take it on my lvl 53 alt to see if it’s even possible to get the guild formed.
Does anyone know of a guild on their realm that raids without world buffs?
1 Like
I’m 100% for just not having them at all. It really does make it an awful experience collecting them. If you enjoy competing with someone like Marty then you have to get the same buffs as him to do it and if your guild wipes your desire to finish the raid goes down.
Everyone plays this game for different reasons, but many do it for the competition and it’s just toxic right now and about to be worse.
I’d even be ok with making many of them unique and not stackable i.e. dragon slayer or ZG. Whichever is the newest overrides the other.
Really the min maxing is in a pretty bad state at the moment and I hope this gets it looked at.
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No world buffs in raids change with Naxx release. Let’s see people squirm.
For real though, I mostly agree because I don’t like being incentivized to log out.
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The root issue for many problems is Blizz going the route of mega servers. We have 3-4x the amount of people on each server vs vanilla while gameplay infrastructure remains largely unchanged. This creates issues / non-vanilla like experiences, with some of the most glaring being:
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Black Lotus supply (which thankfully now is updating to better align with how many people are playing the game)
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Getting world buffs on CD (not the intention and not vanilla like). I’d argue this also creates an overall net negative atmosphere (my opinion) due to the factors Marty already mentioned in prior post.
3 Likes
all non issues
Damnit Marty, you’re the hero we need. Someone who doesn’t suck, speaking out against a system that sucks the fun out of the game. Anyone who suggests #nochanges is a joke. The server populations alone nullify that entire argument.
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This is a bad argument. There are 2 methods of playing.
- Your guild has decent players, and they all stress about world buff in some fashion.
- Your guild has bad players, and you have no fun, but no one cares about world buffs.
Nothing wrong with either group, but if you’re a halfway decent player, you have to death with the world buff peer pressure. It’s sense and would be so easy to remove.
Again, 7k population servers didn’t exist in classic. So the #nochanges argument is irrelevant. World buffs should be removed from raids.
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I don’t think getting world buffs and caring about parses is the difference between “good and bad players”. I think using the terms “hardcore & casual” would be better fitting. Plenty of good players I know that don’t have the time available to stack these world buffs before every raid. This does not make them bad players. This whole issue is a player made thing. Blizzard never intended raids to be logged and to be used as a competition on how quickly they can be cleared and who can have the best parses. These are all things created by the player base to add a further level of competition/difficulty to relatively easy (super easy to some) content. Blizzard did not create classicwarcraftlogs, or keep track of any leaderboards. Why is this on Blizzard to fix? This is on the player base & the people in charge of the logs if anything.
To your first point, i’m not disguising casuals and hardcore as bad and good, respectively. I know tons of great casual players. I’m talking about legitimately bad players/guilds, not the colloquial sense of the word “bad” that tends to get tossed around.
You are right about your point of Warcraftlogs etc, but I feel that the point is irrelevant to the argument. Even if you don’t care about parses, the power spike alone makes things easier, thus people will feel compelled to use them.
Nobody that cares about logs would use them if they reduced your score if you had them. I am not saying this would ever happen, but I think it would be a better place to take your complaint if you are hoping for any kind of changes.
Marty is a pretty respectable player on our server and this is coming from the horde side. He does make some valid points though.
1 Like
I agree, but this is not a flaw in the game itself. But a flaw in the way that the game is played and the way the data is used by the competetive player base. This is why it would be better to get guilds and warcraftlogs to make changes instead of blizzard.
TBH I think a much more elegant solution would be to have separate categories on world of logs with and without world buffs.
Players can then see if they can get the top buffless parse as well as wb parse. It’d incentivise many to raid without them without changing the game at all.
2 Likes
That is a reasonable idea. Much easier than trying to get blizzard to make game changes that would honestly be very contested.
The problem is that unless everyone in the raid does what the parsers want, they won’t get what they want. Kill time is the most important aspect for parses, so now they pressure other people to get world buffs to get their parses, so on and so forth.
Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t add the category. Part of the reason this situation is irksome is because once you lose the buffs, you just can’t parse for the rest of the night.
A non-wb category would allow you to compete once the buffs are gone.