No what I want is a more true to the original vanilla. This dismissive idea that any change means you want TBC is insane.
I like classic and I like TBC, I intend to play both to the fullest, but if classic can be better why wouldn’t we want that? If anything I feel like anyone that thinks full world buffs should be in every raid is more in the spirit of retail.
It’s difficult for me to fathom wanting WoW to be purely a measure of time investment and preparation, but there certainly seems to be a significant portion of the Classic community who feels strongly that it should be the case, even if it means supporting things that are antithetical to the pillars of vanilla.
I can think of no other motivation for supporting the current world buff meta in spite of its demonstrable negative impact on the health of the game.
If you are secure in your ability as a player and as a guild, you should not be concerned about the removal of world buffs.
Blizzard wouldn’t have removed buffs in vanilla.
Vanilla was riddled with issues, unfinished content and bugs and they put out TBC.
In trying to create something ‘more true to the original vanilla’ you’re chasing an impossible target because the experience you want to recreate arose from the interactions of a specific audience at a specific time with specific tools and specific knowledge in a specific context, all of which are now completely different.
Even a time machine wouldn’t satisfy the urge to recapture that moment because everyone who shared it has different and often flawed memories of what it was like and what they enjoyed, which would demand different changes to match their personal visions.
tl;dr: you can’t perfectly recreate a subjective experience. Especially a group one.
I certainly agree, and I know it’ll never be like actual vanilla in many ways, but the world buff stacking is an easy thing to change that would make it much more similar to the original. It would also make fights more difficult, and again I know they still wouldn’t be particularly hard but they would be more like the originals.
Upping boss dmg and HP, or making the game harder for most of the playerbase wont actually impact the people who bend over backwards to stack buffs.
I think they should add mechanics to vanilla bosses to make them mythic difficulty, but its a good thing I dont design the game.
IMO the ease of raiding concern is pretty minor compared to the drama, toxicity, and server instability issue. They don’t need to go out of their way to make the bosses harder, but the balance changes would be a nice byproduct of doing something to extract a lot of the anxiety out of the game for a lot of people.
Right, and that works for your memories - but what the memories of WorldyMcBuff, who distinctly recalls lining up for the nef head every Tuesday with his pals in <Luvs 2 Buff> back in the summer of '05? Is he going to feel like it’s ‘more true to the original vanilla’ now that he can look up and see that hole in his buffs?
And difficulty’s even worse - what about Keyybardeturnor who ran with < Big Ole Nubs > back in the day but is now a Mythic top 100 raider who can complete a +zillion keystone with his eyes shut while sneezing? How are you going to let him re-experience keeping track of Baron Geddon’s bomb as a nigh-impossible challenge without making the fight brutal as hell for the rest of the planet? Specifically, how is his preferred fight tuning going to line up with that of OleMurderMaster, who cleared all the raids within the month of their patch back in the early 2000s with his guild, < ClearAllRaids1MonthofLaunchEarly2000s > but hasn’t touched the game since TBC launch?
I repeat: you cannot recreate a shared subjective experience. Every possible change that makes it ‘more’ like old times for someone will make it ‘less’ so for someone else. More likely several someone elses, since I doubt many people have perfectly identical memories and expectations of vanilla WoW.
I mean somebody can remember that all they want, it doesn’t make it real. You can even refer to original naxxramas or AQ videos and see that it’s blatantly untrue. Let alone people doing this as early as bwl.
There’s a difference between the mechanics being easy and a fight like firemaw having the flame buffet completely ignored because we have the dps to kill it before stacks matter, therefor nobody wears fire res, nobody runs out. Tanks rarely even need to taunt wing buffets on alliance anymore because fury prot tanks with buffs generate so much threat.
Unfortunately the fight cheesing because of buffs isn’t going to stop there, and in my example would firemaw become some immensely challenging fight without buffs? Not necessarily, but at least we’d need to do the mechanic.
on Sulfuras, most guilds lost them to guilds on other factions w/ dozens of dead priests/shamans waiting to rez and purge all buffs they can while communicating w/ multiboxing mages that camp inns so when a guild hearths after getting WB’s that they can AOE/sapper the entire guild to wipe the raid… super toxic behavior. I mean, im not complaining necessarily, just pointing out that player behavior is nothing like it once was… so introducing fixes to mechanics in the game to counter player behavior should be VERY far and few
I actually agree with this. The world buff meta is toxic and cancerous as hell.
I could be wrong, but i’d say at least 90% of the playerbase doesn’t want that. data on wowlogs shows that around 88% of all guilds still wipe on boss mechanics in BWL/MC… (imo) any higher difficulty “levels” would make the game worst… if I wanted that I could just go to retail. and I cant stand to play retail for more than 30 seconds before vomitting profusely
I got on my lvl 53 alt which is on a different realm spammed trade chat “LF guild that raids without world buffs” at 7pm tonight till around 7:50pm. This is on a PVE realm alliance side in SW. No whispers back of a guild that raided without world buffs. Just a few, we raid but don’t mandate that you get the world buffs. Few people laughed at me for thinking I could find a guild without taking advantage of all the world buffs. Also the realm started to complain because some person started the quest to end their Ony atttunement and had to wait on the NPC to finish so they could I believe turn in Nef head, no telling what whispers that guy got. Appears its near impossible to find a guild on that realm that doesn’t raid without world buffs.
It has made servers more interesting to play on though. World PvP has definitely been invigorated in the current dispel meta. Getting to raid safely is a lot more of an adventure than it was a few months ago 
Really that is the best part, just MY OPINION.
Thank you for this anecdote. Everyone saying “just raid without buffs” needs to put on some reality goggles, that’s simply not how socially driven games work.
To each their own but I don’t personally understand how anyone enjoys the 300+ players sitting on the orb and in the hallway causing the entire server to lag out.
I love regular BRM pvp guild vs. guild, 10v10, 5v5, whatever it’s really fun but the current state of world buffs discourages that.
Fully support the OP. You can keep the game code the same but the players have changed and our experience of the game has changed with it. A lot of players enjoy parsing and competition in raids making world buffs mandatory. This has led to people spending more time organising buffs than actually raiding, as well as a rise in toxic dispelling behaviour. This isn’t a similar experience to original classic for the majority of players. It isn’t fun for the majority of players.
Remove word buffs in raids. Focus on improving the gameplay experience for a large portion of the players. Stop holding onto a “nochanges” ideology that is impossible to implement and only restricts developers in making a more enjoyable and authentic experience.
My problem is not with lag, I dont have that issue, but I do have the issue of simply not being able to target the damn thing. That part annoys me.
If you alternate these two macros you can make everyone disappear briefly to get the click
/console graphicstextureresolution 1
/console graphicstextureresolution 2
There’s also a weakaura for auto accepting the dialogue
wago.io/GfGGqgobC/2
But yea it’s unfortunate not everyone has them because it means a lot of people end up getting unintentionally griefed on their raid night at the orb, which effects the casual guilds that don’t really care about world buffs in the first place much more.