You’re not pushing yourself by grabbing world buffs, you’re literally doing the exact same game, with a flat % stat increase. It doesn’t change the gameplay, just your character power. You’re making false equivalences.
That’s really strange because you’ve posted a fair bit about how you like the lotus change but you can do the content without flasks, some people like to push themselves and camp lotus spawns, and that’s fine.
I don’t actually believe that but it’s the same kind of logic.
You are pushing your output to its limits.
100% not bothered by people camping them. Im for the change because it takes a shot at the bots that do it. You are correct, they arent needed for content.
I love that you are browsing my history too lol.
I specifically opened it here because I had a feeling you’d have been pro other changes and with one quick ctrl f lotus I saw that. Which directly contradicts the last line of your post.
Changes can be beneficial to the game, and many of the changes blizzard has made to make the game more in line with the original have been.
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They certainly can be. I dont agree with you that eliminating WBs is one of the beneficial changes though
To you personally, but to the game as a whole? There’s no denying that this world buff culture does not resemble vanilla at all. Did you come into classic with the intent of stacking every world buff for every week of raiding?
Do you think that large amounts of players on every server buff logging every week is healthy for the server? Do you think that people avoiding PvP because they don’t want to get their guild on the “hit list” for buff purging/griefing is good for the server? Do you think that 300+ players sitting in the hallway/on the orb trying to grief people’s buffs and lagging out the entire mountain so that there is no actual pvp is good for the server? or anyone involved?
Do you think that these things might be making people quit the game?
This is completely ignoring any of the other things in the thread, I just don’t see how any of those things are good for the game. And they’re antithetical to vanilla itself.
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Classic stopped resembling Vanilla at launch when they created server sizes several times bigger than Vanilla.
I came into classic with no intentions. I came in with no expectations. I just let the game take me where i wanted to go. I figured if i didnt like something i could be an adult and either ignore it or move on
To answer the rest of your questions i dont think WBs hurt the playerbase at all. Everything you questioned is simply player choice as it should be/ Dont want WBs? Dont get them. Want to avoid PvP near a raid entrance? Roll PvE. The players have the choice but were asking blizzard to hold our hands and make the decision for us. To hell with that, i want to make the choice what i do with my character. Good or bad i want the choice to be mine
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To what end? What benefit are the world buffs giving you?
And I completely disagree that they don’t hurt the playerbase. The “roll pve if you don’t like your buffs being griefed” mentality is completely awful. As I’m sure you’ve read many times in this thread my buffs don’t get griefed, I get into raid just fine and my logs clearly reflect that, but to act like this isn’t hurting the average every day players that rolled pvp servers because they like to pvp and they get met with their raid night being ruined is unfair.
The “just don’t get them” mentality simply doesn’t apply, when you’re quite literally doubling or tripling your damage by having them people are obligated to get them if they want to be competitive.
You’re right though that classic stopped resembling vanilla with the larger servers and the world buffs are yet another consequence of that. I don’t see any negatives to trying to return to a more accurate representation of vanilla.
Are you scared that some of the people in guilds that don’t keep buffs might start to keep up with you without them or something? I personally can’t understand why people feel accomplished for getting good parses with world buffs when they’re only competing with 2-3% of the population that actually gets and keeps them in the first place.
Making it into raid with your raid fully buffed and not wiping basically hands you a 97% parse, and that’s lame.
Griefed? WPvP isnt griefing. Its just part of the game. We can spin it as much as we want but there are no rules against it. Its not griefing its just PvP as intended. PvE exists for those who dont want WPvP as part of their experience
It does. Plenty of guilds complete content and dont get them. Again player choice allows the player to find the guilds that fit their playstyle
Not at all. Im not that good tbh. I try to be beneficial and i try to get better. I dont care if others beat me. I like the people i raid with and i always want them to do well
WPvP absolutely can be griefing and it has been punished as such before, the precedent is there. Also enough people standing in BRM with the intent of removing buffs to the point where the mountain lags out isn’t WPvP anymore, and it is a disruption of gameplay which is by definition griefing, even if you don’t want to go off historic examples of even regular camping being considered griefing.
People like to say plenty of guilds complete content and don’t get them, but I am hard pressed to find examples, personally I watch tons of streams of raids from guilds that are working on bwl progression TO THIS DAY and they are still requiring world buffs, they wipe to vael and lose them but they still require them. Or at least “strongly encourage” them in other words if you’re not getting them your loot priority is in the gutter, in some cases you receive less dkp etc… This goes for guilds that are clearing too but still struggling.
Do you think members of those guilds are happy to be getting their buffs? You can’t tell them to just “not get them” because if they don’t want to they aren’t going to be able to join any other guilds either. Certainly not ones that clear the content.
I stand with Marty
Then report and if blizzard agrees they will be delt with. But i highly doubt blizzard is banning Raids wiping raids
I mean if that statement is true woulnt that be a bigger cry for keeping WBs? You are saying that guilds arent clearing content w/o world buffs which just says they should remain.
We dont require them. Any player that gets them does so to push themselves. We us epgp which is rewarded for showing up and completing content. You dont lose any points for what you are trying to claim happens. Several other guilds on our server use the same system the same way.
Sure maybe it happens occasionally. And to those players id say just find a new guild that isnt being complete cancer. Thats more bad on the players pushing it than the mechanic itself. Fixing the mechanic doesnt make those players not toxic all of a sudden
Is this really an argument that onyxia is hard at level 60 vs level 70 so they nerfed it because we’d get ony heads too easily at 70? I’ve been part of a 5 man ony at 60 in t1 gear, farming felwood at level 60 a fundamental difference at 70? do you struggle in felwood? what’s going on here?
that’s a very easy stance to take while you sit comfortably in a guild like that.
They’re not keeping their world buffs, they’re not actually effecting their raid in any meaningful way but they’re being mandated to get them because of the world buff meta being forced down people’s throats.
Blizzard isn’t going to ban 300 people for standing in BRM. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t griefing, just like I’m not going to get banned if I camp some guy that was farming in the same zone as me 30 times, but that doesn’t make it not griefing.
They wont ban them because it isnt griefing
So define griefing then? Because by every definition I can find it would absolutely fit into it.
Blizzard dictates that. Not you or me. If you truly believe that raids wiping raids is griefing then report it
You’re avoiding the question. What is griefing other than causing the other player grief?
Not avoiding. I have no authority or power to dictate it so i have no answer
Well fortunately for you, there are definitions available so you don’t need to make the decision. And google is only a click away.