Remove titanforging

I think you misunderstand me. Of course getting Cutting Edge is the end goal but there’s nothing that really comes with it now. The process of you going through the ringer and watching your character grow as your team conquers bosses is the thing that I’m talking about. If the end goal can be met with much less resistance then there’s no point in going through the struggle that comes along with it.

My argument isn’t that others shouldn’t have a form of gear progression themselves. Personally I didn’t feel deprived of getting gear when I started playing back in Wrath and never got to see the Lich King in Heroic mode. I also didn’t feel deprived of gear when I was a PvP only player from Cata - WoD.

I’m pushing for a progression system that makes sense and is up to the player to achieve. And if there really is going to be a system like this where it’s pretty much raining loot, then I think there needs to be a better system as to why you’re clearing a raid on its hardest difficulty. A rectangle in the achievement tab is just bland.

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And here I am all along, just wondering why mythic raiders would complain if they had alternative sources of good gear to make it easier to do kill the bosses.

I have remembered why I don’t do mythic raids to begin with: I am simply not sadistic enough, nor do I wish to be recognised for any sadism I may possess. Lol.

My apologies for barking up the wrong tree.

I don’t mind alternative sources of gear as long as effort is equal to the reward. And my end goal isn’t looking for recognition. All I want is consistency. And right now the gearing process is all over the place.

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If elite players think TF is giving us all OP armor then maybe they shouldn’t do the higher end content? Then they can complain about multi junk pieces of TF armor that they all ready have like the rest of us. MY warrior has been stuck around 385ish forever. The few times I do get a 400+ piece of armor its always an item that I all ready got because apparently RNG means more cloaks!

I am sure there are some pretty casual players out there getting a mythic quality item here and there but I feel its not a big issue. Mythic Raiders, higher mythic+ runs, and elite PVPers will have the better overall gear.

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It’s kind of like someone winning the lottery and you get jealous they won but not you? Come on. How about we just standardize all stats so we’re all equal no matter what and all gear is just cosmetic.

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I feel that the jealousy stance is short sighted as to what I’ve been talking about. And if we were to take that path, then my request would be for raid tiers and M+ seasons to have exclusive items that are only available during that season/tier to give a proper incentive to do harder content.

I do believe that was called challenge mode back in mop. It was only cosmetic. That’s how mythic+ SHOULD have been. Not some diablo 3 rip-off.

To be honest, and my issue is predominantly with higher rewards, not WF/TF, but doesn’t that feel jank?
That as soon as you hit 370 you are left in a state where you are now reliant on time-gated mechanics where you can get better than usual rewards or WF/TF to improve?

It’s not even a steady progression up to that stage, it rushes you to 370 then rips the brake. You then have to hope that those future rewards are the ones you need not doubles of your already better pieces, and often not really improvements but simply pieces that “boost your ilvl”.

Either embrace that you want world content to be able to achieve heroic levels of gear like embassies do and raise the cap on WQ rewards. Or accept that WQ rewards should be ~370 and have embassies capped at a similar level.

The same goes for all the weekly caches, M+10 is worth 400 gear for a run yet worth 410 at the end of the week…why? You did the same content, chances are it was literally the same run.

If anything the bonus from weekly caches should be that they are guaranteed.

Not a fan of flip flop rewards.

Even if that meant world content had higher rewards, at least the progression path would make sense.

Wait until the Triple Titanforge goes live!

what I consider a reasonable argument, is that someone who raids heroic, and consistently does m+ could get ilvl equivalence of mythic raiders.

  1. ilvl equivalence=/=power equivalence.
  2. I doubt TF/WF from heroic raiding alone is likely to net overall mythic raider ilvl within a tier.
  3. Sounds like your actual beef is with people getting mythic ilvl from consistent M+
    (refer to point 1)

It’s also telling that the huge issues with TF/WF only seemed to gain traction during legion (when M+ was introduced).

Are these just veiled “remove M+” threads?

Would you be happy if TF was gone, but you could still get mythic raid ilvl equivalent gear from M+?

Is M+ the new LFR?

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I agree with that. I had an idea to where they could theme each season on a specific dungeon and create transmog and mounts for clearing high keys.

Op, and the rest of his ilk remind of teenagers back in 1980’s. They thought were cooler than everyone when they got that members only jacket nobody else had. But when other kids started wearing the same type of jacket they kept trying to find better ways to look cooler than everyone by wearing parachute pants with the members only jackets lol.

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Ah yes, because removing 2 of the biggest pieces of content (maybe not pvp) at endgame is certainly equivalent to removing titanforging. There’s definitely no difference there.

Imagine stretching this far to try and defend this system. Ion himself and the developers already noted that it hurts the game in recent interviews so it’ll probably get capped or removed next expac. Taliesen even said devs at the creator summit stated they want it out of the game and it’s top priority but they need to find something to replace the positives of it with.

TF hurts the game and the gearing system. You might like world content being a slot machine but it isn’t healthy, you might like your gear being invalidated every new season because they have to bump ilvl a lot higher every season due to TF, you might like the entire gearing system revolving around RNG (gems, tertiary, item level) but it isn’t healthy for the game and it’s nice that the devs have finally realized this. It’ll probably be capped or removed at some point.

Every argument against removing TF revolves around people screeching about how heroic/mythic raiders are snowflakes and care too much about what others have (look at the post above this one for reference) but every single time they fail to address any of the actual much more serious concerns with TF. What about the huge ilvl bump that invalides every previous season each time a new one comes out (an entire raid of 20 people will have plenty of TFs)? What about world content having the chance to give you the highest ilvl items in the game for completing a 3 minute WQ or invasion? What about getting a max ilvl TF but not being able to put it on because what you have that’s 15 ilvls lower is better? The only time these problems are discussed by pro-titanforge people is when they’re telling you “just go do WQs and don’t raid!”.

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I agree we would be much rather off with the valor/justice and honor/conquest system. Basically people who do more difficult content earn said points faster. Then you pick what you actually need.

The RNG slot machine for everything does get old.

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This slot machine meme is seriously being beaten to death. We are in a thread which condones hours of sitting in front of a PC to get virtual rewards, and your argument is this TF/WF is like a slot machine and therefore unhealthy? /facepalm

But gear have ALWAYS become invalidated when a new raid tier is released. What’s the difference now? Heck, shouldn’t people be glad that a 425 TF belt is lying around their waist, so they actually have one less gear to worry about in the new rat race?

As I said, this issue existed since vanilla. New raid tier = new rat race. What gives?

Please don’t leave it hanging. What is the issue here? It only happens as a stroke of luck, not 100% of the time.

How is that an issue caused by TF/WF? Gear itemisation exists outside of TF gear. You are clutching at straws here.

I am pro-TF/WF because I think the idea of having alternate sources of good gear (albeit with a low chance of even getting one in the first place) is fantastic. No one has been able to explain how this is game-breaking, except “this is not logical progression”. Well, I think that you guys are the illogical ones to complain that content in BfA are not worth doing because the rewards are poor, yet complain that TF/WF breaks gear progression. And everyone else, please stop claiming that you don’t care whether others are deserving of TF gear. You obviously do when you keep screaming for gear to be exchanged for currency. More grinding = more worthy, amirite?

tl;dr: Elitist players claim they are angels but are really just self-stroking egotists.

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Actually every argument made to remove forging ignores the facts you yourself pointed out. Forging is content for casuals and people chase it within reason. It gives them (and me on my alts) something to do and without it they quickly hit an ilvl wall that invalidates content. No one has a problem with forging being removed and something else more substantive and deterministic being implemented. We have a problem with forging being removed and nothing be implemented in its place. I mean really, show me a single person who is on the other side of the fence from you that honest is arguing from a perspective where they don’t want more engaging content and player agency over loot instead of RNG. And the reality is this…

Which we all knew anyways. Any suggestion by spe…I mean mythic raiders for replacing forging, presuming they even give one, I’ve seen somehow also massively deflates the ilvl of folks who don’t do organized group content. Shocker! Because as Haavi honestly admits, it’s not even really about forging. It’s about high ilvl gear that he’s butthurt other people are getting.

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Just know that no matter what timmy wq champion stands fire gets with titanforging he will still be a garbage player an now with the way gear is beinging handed out has even less incentive to improve an step into higher end content.

So let little timmy have his moment of happiness knowing deep down that even with his heroic item gear he will still only do queable content

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Well said nice logic!

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I love titanforging and warforging, more please!

I raid, why can’t I want higher level gear? I do.

The more gear my raid team gets, the better off we are.

Why do you care what gear I get, it has no bearing on your game-play whatsoever.

This is more of a pvp issue than pve

titanforging is a bonus.

Raids are not scaled with the assumption that everyone will have a full set of titanforged.