Remove titanforging

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

Yes you can. That was debunked a while ago in a different thread.

Yeah, link it if so…

[Jalen-emerald-dream (Jalën)]

Was during Uldir. Would be outdated by this point.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

You can’t do it currently: reach a mythic item level w/o raiding and M+.

[Jalen-emerald-dream (Jalën)]

You can’t do it currently: reach a mythic item level w/o raiding and M+.

You can be a Heroic only raider and reach Mythic ilvl just by running Heroic each week and completing your M10.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

You can be a Heroic only raider and reach Mythic ilvl just by running Heroic each week.

It would be pretty hard since I raid Heroic every week and I do mythic+ every week for the weekly cache and I am still only 413. Most of my gear upgrades come from M+ and not heroic raid.

[Jalen-emerald-dream (Jalën)]

It would be pretty hard since I raid Heroic every week and I do mythic+ every week for the weekly cache and I am still only 413.

That’s still pretty high. The only exception is that we have a mid raid right now to help bump ilvls even further. It would take another thread but players that win the lottery and have Mythic ilvl is not an unreasonable thing to happen in this current system.

Personally I don’t see the issue with capping things. If there’s no reasonable way for these players to get to Mythic ilvl then what’s the problem with capping things? That would give the same result no?

[Darktalon-antonidas (Darktalon)]

raiding is the endgame content

So what happens when you get all the best gear from raiding? You beat the game or something?

Do you just farm gear for the sake of farming more gear or do you pvp? like seriously, what a life to chase carrots just to chase more carrots. Endlessly chasing carrots and trying to stop others from getting any left over carrots. sick.

PvP is endgame.

Giving players that pvp a way to get high level current gear is a good thing. Why should a pvper have to mythic raid to be competitive in pvp with fair item levels?

Where is it written in stone that raids have to give the best of everything and raiding is the point of the game? Killing some AI mobs? Sure it is great for the story and caters to carebears quite nicely but there is more to the game. Dang eh?

The whole point of WoW is horde vs alliance not farming epeen gear.

Real skill is being successful at pvp not being a gear farmer.

Sorry you are blinded by pixel greed. That sucks.

[Avagon-sisters-of-elune]

Personally I don’t see the issue with capping things. If there’s no reasonable way for these players to get to Mythic ilvl then what’s the problem with capping things? That would give the same result no?

Still trying to push for changes that have no impact on Mythic raiders but screws anyone who would have gotten a +15 or higher forge, eh? That’s exactly why it’ll never happen.

[Orctang-area-52 (Orctang)]

That’s still pretty high. The only exception is that we have a mid raid right now to help bump ilvls even further. It would take another thread but players that win the lottery and have Mythic ilvl is not an unreasonable thing to happen in this current system.

Personally I don’t see the issue with capping things. If there’s no reasonable way for these players to get to Mythic ilvl then what’s the problem with capping things? That would give the same result no?

We actually, killed 3 bosses in Mythic this time around because they were cheesy easy. None, of my non-raiding / non-m+ alts are even close to that item level even though they do WQs/Emissaries/Warfronts/ (some weekly quests). Since, I don’t really see any problems overall. I don’t feel a cap or a change is needed.

[Diamla-barthilas]

People are like that. They would rather remove the potential for themselves to have fun, than to experience the possibility of themselves having to envy another for that fun. People are just salty, bitter, or whatever you call it.

I think the conversation could be far more progressive if people realized that it doesn’t have much to do with what other people get. It’s more about you can do hard content and get loot and then do something trivial and get the same ilvl drop. For me and many others, it doesn’t feel good at all.

It creates a “why bother” mentality. Getting higher ilvl loot should come from you improving yourself as a player. Not winning the lottery.

I speak from the viewpoint that people cannot stand others enjoying the luck that they themselves did not get, because that makes more sense to me.

I find it hard to accept that mythic raids are trivialised because of TF gear. I did not bother to check whether you are a mythic raider yourself, but assuming that you are, have you really got to a point where you got so much TF gear from other sources that you just think, “oh hey i already have avg 415ilvl, why bother?”

I am genuinely curious how many people can declare that he/she has acquired so much 415 TF gear that doing mythic raids for loot is pointless.

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

So what happens when you get all the best gear from raiding? You beat the game or something?

Doing raiding is not all about the gear, if it was my guild would never have even bothered with Heroic because we outgeared the rewards within a week.

Do you just farm gear for the sake of farming more gear or do you pvp? like seriously, what a life to chase carrots just to chase more carrots. Endlessly chasing carrots but trying to stop others from getting any left over carrots. sick.

We do it because it’s fun and it’s enjoyable to overcome a challenge as a group. The gear helps us accomplish that but also gives us nice rewards when we manage to finally down a boss.
I don’t “farm gear” I get what comes naturally to me doing the content I enjoy doing instead of chasing some hamster wheel that tells me to “do this for this better reward”

PvP is endgame.

PvP is also endgame. It is not exclusive endgame.

Giving players that pvp a way to get high level current gear is a good thing. Why should a pvper have to mythic raid to be competitive in pvp with fair item levels?

I’m going to assume that you haven’t PvP’d much this expansion. Rewards from PvP scale upto 415, which if I’m not mistaken is equivalent to Mythic raiding from the same patch release.

Where is it written in stone that raids have to give the best of everything and raiding is the point of the game? Killing some AI mobs? Sure it is great for the story and caters to carebears quite nicely but there is more to the game. Dang eh?

No, it’s quite simply how good design works, you get rewarded dependant on the challenge of the content you are completing. Harder content grants better rewards, it’s pretty easy to understand.
Again, Mythic raiders don’t have the best of everything. Whether you compete in the most difficult PvP or PvE content you are and should be rewarded with the best gear.

The whole point of WoW is horde vs alliance not farming epeen gear.

Did you pick up the game in BfA? As much as I love PvP, WoW is a PvE oriented game. It always has been.

Real skill is being successful at pvp not being a gear farmer.

If you think random BG queues are the epitome of skill…well…I hate to break it to you but… it isn’t.

[Avagon-sisters-of-elune]

I find it hard to accept that mythic raids are trivialised because of TF gear.

They aren’t. Mythic raiders are still higher ilvl than everyone else. They just feel threatened by the gap being closed to about a 20 point spread from top to bottom. Mythic raiders on average were sitting at 418 when Crucible opened. And forging has a minimal impact. I’ve looked at dozens of people and the most I’ve seen is a 5 point increase in someone’s overall ilvl based upon forging. In most cases it’s ~3 ilvl. Anyone freaking out about it is being hyperbolic.

[Diamla-barthilas]

rather because you read your chatbox, see that another player in your LFR raid had gotten TF, and you hate it.

Damn bro! I didn’t realise you stalked me and watched my screen while I play!
Just because it “plays into your fantasy” doesn’t make it true. I neither look at my guildies drops during our guild runs, nor check others drops in the 3? Times I’ve done LFR runs. So your comment is complete fallacy.

Your analogy ($20 reward instead of $2) was whack though. Titanforging doesn’t increase your ilvl by 10x.

…sigh obviously you aren’t realising the concept instead just focusing on specific numbers.
You can change the value however you like, the point is that the reward is substantially more than your expected reward.
If you fail to see how getting a pair of 410+ pants devalues all lesser pants rewards well…I’m not sure I can help you there.

Increased rewards devalue the standard awards, regardless of whether that is RNG through WF/TF/sockets or if it’s through time-gated increased rewards schemes.

This may be a hard concept to grasp but I’d suggest that you take care of yourself and what you have.

Yes, and I speak my mind because it affects MY gameplay experience. Again, none of this has anything to do with “oh but this guy got this reward” it’s bull, stop bringing it up.

I think the world might be a better place if everyone had more empathy.

You know, I think the same thing, and truth to tell I’m generally someone who is considered to be highly empathic.
Empathy however is not necessarily agreeing that people should receive above average rewards for no meaningful reason except to encourage players repeat the same content with no meaningful progression.

Empathy is understanding some people need help and trying to assist them, not fobbing them off and giving them handouts hoping they stay quiet.

If I am to be honest, your entire post is just “you are bull, this is bull, that is bull, everything is bull, only my opinion matters.”

You think TF/WF devalues the reward system. Conversely, I think it actually makes a quest more worthwhile to do. I personally scour the map every day to find the 4 most worthwhile WQs to do, and the possibility of TF/WF definitely plays into the equation. But, just like how you think your opinion is legit, I definitely think mine is legit too.

As for my point on empathy, I admit I might have misused the word. But at the end of the day, this is just a game, and if you actually feel that you have put in “work” to achieve something, then we may simply have different interpretations of how games should be.

[Darktalon-antonidas (Darktalon)]

we may simply have different interpretations of how games should be.

They are just blinded by pixel greed and pixel jealousy, have mercy on them. There may still be hope.

*In no way is this a shot towards anyone or said to annoy anyone, it is simply my view on why someone really is upset at others getting better gear than them. I’m confused and see no logic in why anyone would not want their own faction members getting good gear. It more of a joke than anything.

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

If I am to be honest, your entire post is just “you are bull, this is bull, that is bull, everything is bull, only my opinion matters.”

Not quite but yes, I refuted the fact that you simply “made up conclusions” about me, and how I play the game, and my motives without any basis on any comment that I had previously made.
So yes, my post was essentially “you made this up” which was accurate.

[Avagon-sisters-of-elune]

No, it’s quite simply how good design works, you get rewarded dependant on the challenge of the content you are completing.

Good news then, that’s exactly how it works! Mythic raiders get 415 which is higher than everything else from pve in the game. Same with the people who rank high in rated pvp! And Blizzard confirmed that if you raid Mythic you’re on average better geared than someone who does Heroic and so on down the chain at all levels according to difficulty. Any claim to the contrary is you being disingenuous because you’re focusing on a specific piece of gear and not the overall quality of gear people have who do different difficulties.

[Righteous-garrosh (Righteous)]

Remove mythic raiding and PvP.
See how that works?

[Haavi-barthilas (Haavi)]

Honestly, at this point I’m just going to assume that any posts that are simply “doesn’t like other people getting good gear” is just trolling and will report it as such.

[Darktalon-antonidas (Darktalon)]

I have no idea what you are going on about as seen if you scroll up… you repeatably targeted my opinion, picked it apart, added your 2 cents on why i am wrong and worked towards creating an arguement.

But go ahead fell free, report, it may just silence me. If that is what you are after and dislike my opinion, do your thing.

Why am i not shocked someone resorts to reporting to silence him?

My opinion triggers you that badly? Stop pointing your guns at me then… if anyone here is trolling… it is you.

Basically stop replying to me / stirring up conflicts (trolling) if my opinion or stance on titanforging bothers you.

[Diamla-barthilas]

Huh. What conclusions did I “make up” about you?

If I am to be honest, your entire post is just “you are bull, this is bull, that is bull, everything is bull, only my opinion matters.”

Not quite but yes, I refuted the fact that you simply “made up conclusions” about me, and how I play the game, and my motives without any basis on any comment that I had previously made.
So yes, my post was essentially “you made this up” which was accurate.