I’d be all for that
Gear should progress the content it drops from to make the next time easier
1 Like
Someone doesnt like that people can be equally geared to the hardcore nolifers withought raiding 24/7.
Why do we always go to extremes?
What about heroic raiders, which is the bulk of guild orientied raiding?
Our server has 59 guilds on WoWprogress.
38 have at least 1 heroic kill.
A whopping 5 are more than 1/9 mythic.
0 have killed Mecka (meaning 0 chance at CE as Jaina is significantly more difficult than the rest of the raid).
2 Likes
“It devalues end game raiding.”
…no, it doesn’t. As with any other non-real-world commodity, raiding and raid gear have precisely as much value as you as an individual assign to it. If you feel someone else’s gear is devaluing your raid experience, that’s a you problem.
“TF/WF system means you are never done gearing.”
…again, false. You are done gearing when, and only when, you decide you’re done gearing. If you feel compelled to chase forges that is, again, a you problem.
“It’s not fair that someone gets a high-level proc from a WQ/LFR/normal that is a higher ilvl than my base mythic.”
…“fair” isn’t even a factor here. If that drop they got makes it impossible for you to get one, then you could make that argument. It is not, however, a zero-sum game; his drop did not reduce or even affect in any way your chance at the same. Furthermore, someone else’s gear does not and should not affect your experience in any way whatsoever, unless you are the envious type, which is–say it with me–a you problem.
“It eliminates the need to raid.”
…a whole new world of false. There is not, nor has there ever been, a “need” to raid, or to do any other single thing in this game. You raid because it meets a goal you have in the game; whether that goal is entertainment, socialization, or gear. If it’s gear you’re raiding for, high-end raiders will have (the overwhelming majority of the time) a much higher average ilvl that anyone else. Sure, there may be an LFR unicorn out there who has been consistently coming up double black with every spin of the wheel, but I certainly haven’t met them. Besides, even that unicorn has no actual bearing whatsoever on any objective experience you have playing this game, unless you have a problem with others getting things you feel that you’ve worked harder for. I’ll let you guess what kind of problem that is.
TF/WF is fine. Any and all problems with it exist entirely in the heads of the people complaining about it.
8 Likes
Titanforging is just horrible design atm.
Rework it into something better like a upgrade system that add 5-10 ilvl to that piece of gear with badges that you get for doing content or something.
1 Like
This is a giant strawman against the main issue.
It feels like crap to down a new boss and shard all the gear due to how easy and fast weaker loot comes along with titanforging.
Especially when that boss took 100+ pulls and its worse, or marginally better, than something you could do in your sleep.
A lot of us dont give 2 craps if Jonny LFR gets a good piece of gear. We want a system were the rewards are (relatively) proportional to difficulty.
it also makes a really fast gearing curve where the raid gears very fast in the first month and plateaus quickly.
2 Likes
Lol you put Mythic raid at same level like 2v2 1 minute combats ?
Ahahah. ANY PvP gear should be at least 30 ilvl less than Mythic raiding.
PvP doesn’t demand any time investement, any farm, nothing and Blizzard just gives away ilvl for them
Wf/tf was really not designed to be farmed for if you’re decked in it you really don’t have a life or really,really lucky.
1 Like
If forges were super common, I would agree with you. They are not, however.
I’m not arguing that the system is perfect. I’d actually prefer to see tertiary stats and sockets proc at a higher rate than actual forging, personally. That would add a little more flavor and some rather more meaningful choices.
I mean, you make a valid point, and I can certainly see that perspective. This statement, however:
may be true for you, but look at the overwhelming majority of threads on this topic. Hell, look at many of the responses in this thread. Jonny LFR getting high-lvl forges is precisely what is rustling the jimmies of most of these folks.
2 Likes
People find the game rewarding because of the accessibility of gear and potentially large random upgrades.
If you have $2 and someone gives you $2 you are going to feel great about it, you just doubled what you had. Now if someone instead gives you $20 you might feel great in the moment, but when the next person offers you $2 again for that same service you are going to feel cheapened.
In relation to the game, if you are doing WQs with 370 rewards and embassies for 395-400+ and you get TF pants that are 410 from an embassy the reality is that every single 370 WQ that grants pants is of significantly reduced worth.
On top of that, you are going to feel cheated if you get another embassy and you get pants again that are now only 395.
Especially since those large rewards are all time-gated.
This simply compounds on the fact that gold and resource rewards were significantly reduced and AP just recycles things that you have already unlocked. The reward system is out of whack because you can either get an average reward or something considerably above average.
2 Likes
Only in Mythic +. Mythic 0 still has a lock out on it, due to being able to “target” rewards.
That what i thought so it is possible and more likely those are being farmed.
2 Likes
nope ion says its here to stay deal or you leave.
1 Like
Honestly, having different sets for different content would be preferable with the alt sets giving less benefit in the other forms of content.
It would actually give value to other gear and open up multiple forms of progression.
I actually enjoyed when PvP Power and PvP Resilience were in the game. Added variety instead of 1 set fits all.
Tertiary stats and small bonuses I agree with. I don’t quite agree with sockets though. Apart from it being silly that sockets are only RNG in the first place, there is a big issue with sockets and how they have a “hidden” value.
The average player can see “oh this item got 10 extra ilvls it must be better” it’s a clear upgrade, but when the item gets a socket instead?
A lot of people don’t understand the true value of that socket so they will disregard it, or “upgrade” it with the aforementioned 10 ilvl upgrade.
Since the value of sockets scale with your current gear level it is not always obvious what the true value is. When that is a RNG upgrade, it’s an issue.
To be honest, most of these thread have nothing to do with (outside a few opinions) gear that another person gets. The only reason it is brought up a lot is because people who like WF/TF feel it is an easy argument to make, even if it is irrelevant.
“You don’t like the system because you got a 30ilvl upgrade and now you can’t upgrade that item as you progress through harder difficulties? Sounds like you just don’t want other people to have the same gear as you.”
2 Likes
You can enjoy any content you want, but the gear ilvl should EQUAL the DIFFICULTY of the content you are doing. Are WQs difficult? Warfronts? You can AFK through warfronts (you really think you should get free 400s for AFKing? ![:roll_eyes:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/roll_eyes.png?v=6" ":roll_eyes:")
). You can easily solo WQs. Normal and heroic raids require grouping up and knowing mechanics. What is the point of putting so much time and work into this game if people who barely play have the same gear as me? It doesn’t feel very fair imo.
Getting gear appropriate to the difficulty of content you do only makes sense, I think. What if I work extremely hard in school, meet all the requirements to get into college, only to not be accepted because someone else, who doesn’t fit the requirements at all, who doesn’t care to do well, PAID to get in? Am I an elitist? No. You work toward an award, you get it. I don’t think things should get handed to you.
So you think a mythic raider or a very high ranked PVPer should have the EXACT same ilvl gear as someone who plays very casually? How does that make sense?
For me it isn’t about ego, but motivation. If I already have good gear doing content that isn’t difficult, why should I push into higher content? I would like to, but I like to progress and do each raid difficulty. But I already have heroic level gear.
1 Like
No he doesn’t actually. Just recently in the interviews Ion stated he understands that the community wants TF/WF out of the game but they don’t have anything to replace the positives of it with yet.
Then you have Taliesin who was at the creator summit who said the developers told him they want titanforging out of the game and it’s a priority.
You can find the interview on MMO-champion and you can find the twitch clip of Taliesin on his twitch channel or on reddit.
The devs seem to finally want to remove TF and with good reason. It hurts the game more than it helps.
-
TF forces blizzard increase the ilvl cap by 15+ every single new season in order to offset the titanforged gear people had from the previous season. This invalidates everything you did from the previous season as now any world quest gear will be an upgrade from normal/heroic/mythic of the previous tier.
-
It turns outdoor content into a slot machine. Maybe I’ll get this WQ trinket titanforged at 420 or maybe I won’t, who knows? That shouldn’t be in the game at all. When you go out and do content, every single reward you get shouldn’t have that “what if” feeling.
-
It gives anyone a chance to get the highest ilvl gear in the game. For me personally it feels pretty bad when I get a titanforged item from a 3 minute WQ. This happened to me twice in uldir and it replaced 2 mythic uldir items which felt bad. Not only that but some people in my raid have gotten 3-4 425+ pieces while I have none, all of that is just sheer luck. It’s stupid. It doesn’t matter how small the drop chance is, this shouldn’t be possible. You do mythic, you get mythic gear. You do heroic, you get heroic gear. The first 2 reasons are objectively harmful to the gearing process and the game, this third one is a subjective thought.
2 Likes
Yes it does. Raiding IS endgame content. Most TF completely eliminates the value of normal mode raiding gear. Sometimes heroic as well if I remember correctly. They have the same ilvl. So yes it does. “The difficulty of gear should equal the difficulty of the content” is for some reason an extremely hard concept for some to understand for some reason.
This I can agree with more. I personally do not want to push into Mythic, don’t have the guild for it and don’t care enough.
Fair is a factor. LFR is not difficult content, again. Mythic raids are much more difficult. A TF piece from LFR should not equal a piece from a mythic raid. I don’t think that is fair.
If people get high level gear from any content no matter what difficulty, it kills my motivation. Why should I step into a heroic or normal raid, when I can just do WQs and cross my fingers? I want to raid, but I already have that gear from warfronts, WQs. I can also get it from LFR. shrug
For me it eliminates the need to raid. The raid difficulties I want to do have gear equal the gear I have. Sure, I could do it for fun, but why waste that time? Yes, you don’t have to raid, but some people do want to raid and progress.
In my opinion TF is definitely a problem. What if TF gets so out of hand, that raid guilds quit because there is no reason to raid if gear is what you are after? TF is too much.
In my opinion, TF makes no sense. Not even WF tbh.
1 Like
I could get behind this. It definitely needs to be toned down and we need some player agency in terms of gearing up. It shouldn’t be 100% random.
Once again humanity trolls forums because she only wants people to get gear from carries.
If people do not pay her for gear then the game is broken.
That is sad.
Thankfully the game makers can see this and have catch up mechanics that allow others to get gear.
/sigh.
3 Likes