That makes way more sense.
If you want m+ without timer then go do delves. I believe you have 10 or 11 levels of difficulty without timers.
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Delves donât have dungeon mechanics though? So why would you say this.
Delve mechanics are: collect 12 candles, spray off webs, save webbed up miners, etc. They have nothing to do with dungeon or raid mechanics.
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Thereâs a chest at the end of each fractal that can drop an ascended armor or weapon chest. Since you donât compete for loot, thereâs no need to roll for the chest, youâll do the fractal, complete it and if you get the chest, you get the chest. Each day you have multiple fractal options to choose from and you get a LOT of rewards from fractals.
For example, fractals have 100 difficulty levels split into 4 tiers (0-25, 26-50, 51-75, 76-100), obviously you need to earn your way up to the higher difficulty levels by completing fractals (youâll start with only 0-25 available, so Tier 1). But if you complete say a Tier 4 Fractal, youâll not only get the reward for doing that Fractal on Tier 4, but for every Tier below that, so youâre not forced to run each Fractal 4 times for maximum rewards.
But if you do get a chest you can open it at any time and the chest UI will let you choose exactly what piece of gear you want, then for ascended gear that comes from these boxes, youâll get to choose what stats you want from that item specifically. Where as some other ascended gear items that you get from vendors or stuff you craft will already have their stats set.
Outside of bragging rights and achievements there is no benefit to doing any Tier above 8.
I comfortably do T10 on my hunter, and T9 on my warrior, but most of the time I am breezing through 8 because thereâs simply no reason to go higher than that as T8 is where the gear rewards cap. For gear on my hunter and warrior above T8 I do heroic raiding.
And thatâs fine. I am by no means saying that I canât do M+. I did it a bit during Dragonflight, but the timer just isnât my thing. Itâs not something I enjoy. So I have no horse in this race, I am simply discussing for the sake of it. Presenting options and talking about how other games handle increased difficulty for dungeons.
Because you can have other options instead of the timer, and frankly I do feel like those options would be more enjoyable for everyone. Just remember, no one here is arguing that M+ should be made easy. The timer isnât what makes M+ difficult. Thatâs the difficulty scaling, dungeon mechanics and the affixes each week. The timer is just a punishing addon that means you canât make mistakes if you want the best chance at rewards.
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We need Player Housing ASAP so we can sequester all these hermits into a compartment of the game where we never have to hear from them ever again.
Delves, Player Housing. Put them all on a giant island and give them their own rewards and what not. We never want to see them ever again.
Also make a forum general called âSolo Player Generalâ or something like that.
If m+ works like delve without timer but have 5 lives, then m+ is much miserable than current state. M+ should be harder than delve as M+ give much better reward than delve.
M+ is nearly dead right now.
One easy solution is lowering the difficulty of m+. It will really solve m+ quickly in perspective of most players.
M+ +8 should be a bit harder than delve +8.
However, the increase of difficulty of delve +8 to m+ +8 is too too too much!!!
Most Players play the game for fun, only a few players play for challenge.
The timer is the least of peopleâs worries. The issue is that there is no on-ramp to tanking. The moment a new tank enters leveling dungeons, normal dungeons, or heroic dungeons they are immediately expected to wall to wall pull. If they donât then they get berated or kicked. Once they enter M0, they now have to use defensives that were never needed in queued content.
The issue is the community. Removing the timer wonât fix that and people will still go zoom zoom. Just look at all the content without a timer.
Right, cause mass players werenât already complaining about how hard it is now. You are out of touch. Lol
The timer has nothing to do with tanks.
It is the harsh gameplay fostered on to healers that is the problem. Tanks can precast mitigation for a tank buster. Healers need to pre-plan several seconds and global cooldowns ahead before incoming damage. Several bosses and mini bosses have overlapping group wide and tank damage all at once. Newer healers really struggling to figure out how to heal that because healing (currently) is not made to be reactionary.
Tanks, to a lesser extent, preplan mitigation. Often doesnât help us if we are late pressing a mitigation button.
This is very different from a dps role. Where all actions are reactionary.
Oh boy, as a tank, I canât wait for this promised land where group expectations of how fast I pull, are not tempered by the reality of wiping and bricking the key.
"Just pull faster, if we wipe, or itâs more stressful for you, it doesnât matter, there is no timer.
No, they had tank shortages long before mythic plus was a thing.
They implemented the needed class reward system when queuing. It failed.
It turns out people who play tanks play them because they want too, not for the rewards
They already have this. Each boss in mythic plus has an enrage timer
Da Nile and just a river in Egypt.
Timer isnât the issue.
Nor will it go away.
Dungeons are nothing like M+, not even with the timer. There is no completion %, you donât see most mechanics, CC is never needed, interrupts are wasted GCDs, and pulling everything without using a defensive is expected behaviour.
Removing the timer is not the only fix. They would need to make torghast level changes to make M+ worth it. If they drop the timer, add your âhighest completedâ at the door, and then let everyone enter based on the highest completed collectively, while amping up trash and bosses for âbetter gearâ, it might work. But this idea, as it sits, is just another bad hot take.
I mean with the current state of players the affixâs provide a challenge as it is sadly. Because alot of people have grown brain dead to mechanics.
This would mean less tanks.
The issue with the role of tanking, is that there is added responsibility of the role. The default team leader is the tank. They set the pace and need to know what to do. A DPS playing poorly doing 60% of what they are capable of, can still contribute to a key and over-all not have a huge negative impact at lower keys.
A tank on the other hand, playing 60% of what they are capable of, will die. They will wipe the group. They will ruin other peopleâs time. This is one facet.
Another is that raids require 2 tanks. And PvP for the most part requires 0 tanks, outside of Epic BGs. So the ratio of tanks to other classes is different. for a 30 man raid, you need the same amount of tanks as a 12 man raid. In that facet, tanks often need to have a DPS or Heal OS to PuG raid, or raid with a guild.
The peak of tanking, is always when tanks are OP. When their survival is self reliant. Where when played well, for most scenarios they wont die, unless they make a big mistake. Also they have to be able to do decent DPS along with this. So activities outside of raid and M+ they can do in tank spec, without it feeling like they are invincible yet hitting things with a feather duster.
Its tough to balance, but if they want to get more people to play Tank and Heal, they need to make those Specs as close to OP as they can get. If not make them OP. Then just put in rails to limit raids to 3 people in tank spec, and M+ to 1 person in tank spec. It may not be possible, but that is the way. You want more of em, they need to be OP.
For healing to be fun, people need to be able to die.
So no, this doesnât work.
This sounds stupid.
Oh, you donât have a single ksh⌠this makes more sense now. You donât âtankâ anyway.
Yes. But, tank survivability now does depend on healers, and other members to interrupt, stun, stop mobs. Tanks having the bulk of their survivability in their own hands drove higher tank participation. And I do tank. On Druid, Paladin, Monk, DH, DK. Just depends on what I am enjoying playing each patch. This patch, I am not enjoying tanking that much.
And as for people being able to die. That is a current issue in keys. People are very able to die, if they dont use a personal CD. There are damage events where unless the DPS use a personal CD, and or you have an Aug in your group, people die. There are interrupts and stuns, that are necessary, or the ability can one shot.
You should know all of this as you appear to push high level content on your main. From what I know of the ultra high end, its that the timer doesnt really matter that much. Its more the ability to live through damage events. There gets to be a point where the group just cannot survive the damage going out.
That is one of two outcomes with infinite scaling. You either cant survive, or you cant deal enough damage to kill things quickly enough.
Yep. I dont enjoy playing at the highest levels. KSM and Heroic raiding are fine for me. Low stress and still fun, where I can play whatever class/spec combos I want to a large degree.
And for the most part, I represent a larger portion of the WoW population than you do, at the very top end. And at the mid range of content difficulty people, from my experience, dont play tanks or healers because of the responsibility in the role. At those levels, tanks and heals have to often carry the under-performers. And without those roles being a bit OP, it makes doing that harder, and less desirable.
At the high end, to my understanding. the pool of tanks/heals is limited just on a numbers ratio. Mythic Raid tanks are pretty much a guild lock in, as are healers. So those people often run with set groups and have schedules. Leaving the PuG scene very much under supplied at the higher end. This combined with the smaller pool of players at that higher end, leaved a pretty broad delta of DPS players.