Fun fact dungeon boss is irrelevant in dungeon and if you think 4 prot warrior + 1 prot with wings cant pass dungeon dps check you’re obviously misinformed.
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Specifically how?
The timer forces you to play at a high level while limiting your mistakes.
How can you replicate this for an entire dungeon when there is no threat of failure outside of giving up?
The affixes if you made them stronger, would just make many impossible very quickly.
Clearing more areas doesn’t make things more difficult if the trash isn’t difficult.
You cant stop in the middle of a raid encounter to see what you are doing wrong.
Stop looking at m+ as multiple encounter. M+ is one giant encounter. Raiding is one giant encounter.
Thats my point.
If you could stop in the middle of a m+ to watch a video it would be like stopping in the middle of a raid fight to watch a video on phase 2.
Can’t wait to see all the tanks happy their DPS is being drastically nerfed to make sure they stay below the enrage timer.
After all, tanks shouldn’t be able to dps. Only tank. Because “tanks should tank”, right?
Some weeks bosses are the easier portion of the m+.
Cataclysm says hi. ZG, ZA, End Time, hell even Heroic Deadmines where you have to run through the entire dungeon twice…
Do you have any evidence to back this up? Blizzard can’t balance a boss to be unkillable without some extremely geared non-dps roles or 3 dps? Explain the formulas at work here so I can believe you.
Ye… yes? I mean, tanks have more health, healers, can heal, and dps can do dps. You’re calling me out for wanting an RPG to play like an RPG?
ZG and ZA? You mean raids they super lazily turned into a dungeon? Then deadmines reskin (another vanilla dungeon).
End time isn’t even long what are you taking about?
Any of the Cata dungeons (new for Cata) would easily be made into a mythic+ dungeon.
They are all relatively short, 3-5 bosses, etc. the difficult trash would make it actually interesting.
Probably a lone exception, out of all the new dungeons TBC-WoD, is halls of origination.
It has everything to do with class tuning as you’ve used class abilities as an example.
Using your own example for example; ideally Holy Priest should be tuned to be more competitive at progression content if that is where the heart of your concern is. Even if that were not the case, it would need to have enough of an advantage to more boss focused weeks and content (say Tyrannical weeks and raids) where it would have it’s own advantages over other healers who may be better at healing while moving.
This way classes keep their identity and remain useful too.
No, but you can wipe and then do it without impacting anything in the long run.
Wiping on a raid boss has no consequences other than your repair bill though. Failing a M+, whoever started it loses their key, leading to toxicity.
Honestly, I’m fine with the current mode of m+… but if they added a timerless mode I wouldn’t complain.
As long as the timerless mode didn’t offer the same rewards, and you couldn’t upgrade the key. Sure.
No not fact some content is better with a timer look at how popular the first iteration of mythic plus was back in tbc
“Can’t upgrade”, yes I’ve been saying that since the beginning if you scroll up.
“Same rewards” - you get the same rewards even if you utterly bomb a timed run today so I’m not seeing the difference.
This is never going to work, because you’re still not explaining why you would take a planting caster that doesn’t DPS to a run and gun timed fight. This is a game design problem. The healers that can DPS obviously have to be able to heal enough to get through the dungeon. But they also can DPS. So there’s really no other option than to make everyone be able to DPS, and heal, and have a br, so that the game is “balanced” for m+.
Death count if just so superior to timers because it allows you to pick your strategy. You can make a run and gun group, or get a strong healer and beefy tank at the expense of some DPS. It allows classes to fill roles and mix and match those roles.
Do you even know what number a prot warrior can pull in a dungeon?
If they don’t have to bring healer with obvious lower amount of DPS and bring Prot Paladin with Wings in every encounter, not only it will be way safer (duh 5 tanks and every single one of them can’t be instagibbed by mechanic) its pretty much free +20 minimum for every team that can stack 5 tank.
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Only thing that drives me nuts is stupid timer on visions. Idk WHY they had to make MORE timed content. M+ is fine for it, but it seems its just in everything now…
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But if you fail a timed run, you don’t get the same rewards. One of the rewards is your key upgrading. You lose your key.
If you could fail runs, not have your key downgrade, and continue to get the same ilvl rewards it would be extremely imbalanced.
There are three difficulties with no timer, the whole point of M+ is progression.
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So maybe it’s just because as a returning player this has been my first experience with this whole mythic dungeon thin but I think I agree with OP for the most part.
For one, coming in at the end of the expansion all the dungeons are already figured out with optimal paths and pulling etc. I don’t even know what the story for these dungeons are, I just run them …
If you asked “why are we here?” I’d just have to say for loot, cause story wise I have no clue.
The other thing that kills me about m+ is that the whole “rush rush hurry rush” aspect of the whole thing has bled into the rest of the game.
I came back for classic and the amount of spazzy on display was really confusing me. Once I tried out retail, now I know why, the top end game mode for you guys has been on a timer for years now … not good.
The idea of a virtually endless game mode, by increasing difficulty with every +1 is fine, possibly even a great idea. Putting it on a timer though… might have had unintended consequences.
Does make me excited for Torghast though, if there can be an exponentially harder, untimed, neverending game mode I’d be all for it.
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Then you just nerf prot warriors and other tanks to do half the damage of DPS under p90.
Like, this is just math. There’s no reason why you can’t design the game around a limited number of deaths and use boss enrage timers to stop turtling with weird comps. And yeah, some people will cheese it, but people will cheese literally anything - the game will always need more tuning.
And failing a key timer still rewards loot at the end of the run and all 5 members get a weekly chest and residium to buy Azerite.
I think a lot of people don’t understand that the issue with M+ is with the forcing function around class design. 
People complain about homogenization and then support systems that demand it.
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I’d rather they just keep the current design rather than catering to baddies that can’t keep up with the timer, you already have M0 for that.
Catering to baddies made Ghostcrawler and Totalbiscuit left the game, now that M0 is a thing, they should left some content for fully functional people that didn’t phased out just because they saw a number ticking down.