I have enjoyed m+. I’m not saying beating the timer isn’t a fun game type - but what I will say is that I think the game is worse for having it for two main reasons:
It balances the game around the wrong things:
With m+, healers that just heal and do filler damage don’t work. Every m+ group needs to have hybrid specs with as much utility as possible. It creates a forcing function were traditional RPG roles simply don’t work well. Because m+ gear is critical to getting geared for both pvp and raiding, there is immense pressure to not play certain specs because of m+ balance.
It ruins the RPG:
It used to be that we had long, maze like dungeons that you could immerse yourself in and take the time to enjoy. Now after leveling (which is like 1% of the time you spend in an xpac) everything is about rushing as fast as possible. It’s turned the game into an action run and gun with none of the RPG D&D gameplay many of us want from WoW.
Overall, I think we need to scrap the timers and go back to tuning rewards and content solely around encounter difficulty. We should also go to a hybrid long/short dungeon model so that people can choose to partake in BRD style zone like dungeons which were peak RPG or get a small dungeon in.
I also think a good replacement system would be to limit the number of lives to upgrade the key instead of a timer. A limit of 20-30 deaths or even less at higher key levels would take just as much skill as beating the timer. You can use enrage timers on bosses to prevent turtling.
I mostly agree with this, as i loathe m + and although i truly appreciate what horrific visions contain as far as story and strange stuff to do, i don’t like timers! in raids and dungeons on the bosses, timers are totally acceptable, as once they are completed, you can take a break or wind down on trash b4 the next one. this kind of content has you are peak adrenaline at all times, which i find quickly tires me out mentally. torghast sounds like it goes in a diff direction and i am thrilled to see how that does.
That’s not really the point. The point is that overall class design and the feel of the game is negatively influenced by m+. Having some passive DPS through some gear in 8.3 doesn’t fix that.
The only way to gauge their difficulty would be make bosses/mobs have such obscene HP/Damage that you’ll only be able to do them by the skin of your teeth
Since if “They became what they used to be” which I guess you mean launch BC heroics or Cata launch heroics, those don’t mean you should get mythic raid gear
Only the weekly gives mythic gear
The equivalent to before would be like now to make them give heroic gear based on a currency. And make them drop normal raid gear.
Sure the first couple times doing long dungeons might be immersive. But every subsequent run through it becomes more and more tedious. Halls of Valor in Legion was despised because it took forever compared to things like Maw of Souls.
Or how about we challenge the devs to design for many?
Timed linear pathway dungeons? Sure! Untimed multi pathway epic dungeons? Sounds great! Mini solo towers? Go for it ! PVP dungeons? Yes! Cata launch heroic dungeons for those who enjoy challenge? Sure! Tracing quests wq gearing path for the socials? Sure why not.
There is a version without timers, it’s called failing/not paying attention to the timer.
What I think would help, is an option where you can disable the timer and the key has no chance to upgrade or downgrade. Then you can advertise your key in that mode and people’s expectations will be calibrated accordingly.
Reducing loot would create far more toxicity than we currently have. At least now, even if you completely bomb a timer you have the same chance of getting rewards at the end. Even the least hospitable PuGs know that much.
