Remove timer based content from the game

[Awkward-frostmourne (Awkward)]

It balances the game around the wrong things:

Hard disagree. Without the timer, the challenge in M+ would be dealing with horrendously unfun things, like AoE’s that OHK you, spells that will insta-gibb your healer if not kicked, or bosses having their HP/damage boosted, they become an almost insurpassable wall.

Ever tried to do a boss like Cragmaw or Yazma on a high Tyrannical week? That’d be what EVERY boss would be like. Meanwhile, every trash pack would have to be like the center pack in Atal (with the two big Dinos), because otherwise Trash wouldn’t matter and the meta would shift to be purely boss focused.

Having a way to “fail” a key is the only way to prevent the keys from being designed in such a way that bashing your head against them for 2 hours doesn’t become a viable strategy.

It ruins the RPG :

The “RPG” part of that was ruined long before M+.

Those dungeons you describe haven’t existed since Vanilla. And even then, they were very much few and far between, with the only dungeons that even vaguely meet that criteria being BRD and Mara (WC too, if we’re being somewhat generous). Everything other dungeon in Vanilla (and since then), has been more or less a straight run to the end, with maybe a branching path and optional boss here and there.

Removing the timer isn’t going to suddenly make Blizzard change how they develop dungeons, when they clearly do not like designing extremely long, non-linear dungeons. If it did, we would have seen those kind of dungeons in BC, Wrath, Cata, MoP or WoD.

If you want a D&D style RPG, I’d recommend Divinity or Pillars of Eternity, not WoW.

I also think a good replacement system would be to limit the number of lives to upgrade the key instead of a timer. A limit of 20-30 deaths or even less at higher key levels would take just as much skill as beating the timer. You can use enrage timers on bosses to prevent turtling.

Not really. All that would encourage is waiting for Lust and full cooldowns for every single pack, and the challenge being designed around that.

[Jayawen-moon-guard]

Um, up until Legion that is how the game was designed. The game and the classes the started with the game were not designed around speed running dungeons. They were designed with large group raiding.

The more they lean into speed running dungeons as end game content the more crappy class design is going to get.

You can refer back to this thread if you like once SL releases and when you are complaining about how boring and simple class design is.

MMOs are not e-sports and trying to shoehorn content like that is super toxic to the community. In all my years of playing MMOs, I have never seen a system cause so much division like M+ does.

[Jessail-terenas (Jessail)]

try to do a run of a decent key without any interrupts lol, it actually becomes impossible to complete a run if you ignore mechanics after a certain key level.

Honestly this is the greater crime in my opinion. Making it so content de-facto requires three melee interrupts is insane. The dungeon design this expac has been brutal to ranged and casters in specific.

On the topic of timers: I’d be fine with a non-timer mode, but it would need to scale exponentially rather than linearly and have enrage timers. Not sure what the exact scaling would be but K_L^1.5 would be a good place to start testing.

[Hpellipsis-whisperwind (Hpellipsis)]

I’ll take them removing the constant sanity drain from visions as long as they made almost every avoidable mechanic in the vision deal some amount of sanity damage and massively nerfed gift of the titans.

[Nasuuna-emerald-dream]

The more they lean into speed running dungeons as end game content the more crappy class design is going to get.

And honestly the speed running only started, because that’s what Ion was into. Before he was the lead dev he was making speed running videos. So, now the game gets to be an arpg because that’s what he thinks is fun.

[Flexecutie-amanthul]

You mean like visions which bads also complain about?

[Goldenseal-hyjal]

Spot on! This whole speed run of things wasn’t part of WOW until ION. Use to be about enjoying content. Now you see why people burn through it so fast, he likes it like that.

It’s crap.

[Lights-proudmoore]

I Just got into mythics like 3 weeks ago - It’s a lot easier than I thought. I’m enjoying the timed stuff. If mythic+ didn’t have timers it would be dreadfully boring and probably have less rewards

[Allolria-khazgoroth]

This thread which was active for a year sums up my opinion OP: Bring back 5mans

[Annastasi-proudmoore]

what is bad is to be in front of elitist and toxic players that we have to endure their whims through toxic websites like Raiderio and Warcraft.log that almost ruins the experience of the game in front of this kind of players who don’t care about anything more than take advantage of vice.

what does this even mean

[Littlefella-medivh (Littlefella)]

I also think a good replacement system would be to limit the number of lives to upgrade the key instead of a timer. A limit of 20-30 deaths or even less at higher key levels would take just as much skill as beating the timer. You can use enrage timers on bosses to prevent turtling.

Use an enrage timer on the boss?

[Rattfinkk-stormrage]

if Torghast is a time based event im gunna be really disappointed. I want “how far can you get” not “how fast can you get there”
Its exactly what i dislike about about Visions.

[Kelgar-the-scryers (Kelgar)]

they should make base game free to play.

[Skuurge-illidan]

The timer only matters if you want to upgrade the key and really, most people don’t need to try and push past +10 before getting their ilvl up and if you are pushing higher keys already, then i think the timer should absolutely be in place because it’s race for a higher key and more loot. . why shouldn’t you have to work harder for it?

I think the timer is fine and I don’t always complete the M+ before it runs out and I’m ok with that.

And long maze like dungeons… no thanks. even 40 minutes seems like a long time in a dungeon. spending an hour + in one run… I’d rather not.

If i want long drawn out instances, I raid. We spend 3+ hours in Ny’alotha twice a week in Normal and two more times in Heroic. (different guild groups).

[Ifelixl-quelthalas (Ifelixl)]

It means that pitifully, although it helps to mark many to the experience of much that they are already playing for a while, the expansion, for new players they have a hard time allowing them to enter or increase their game experience faster without being interrupted by toxic players that only It matters to take advantage of other players in an elitist way.