This only applies to mythic raiding. Mythic+ dwarfs heroic in terms of gearing efficiency. Easier, better loot ratio, stronger gear, guaranteed items.
And considering how few guilds just “full clear in 4 hours” for mythic I would say you are vastly overblowing the gearing efficiency of raiding.
Just clearing at all puts in in a top 20 US guild.
Warrior does do 50% of dps’s on average, only with CDs their dps started to spike, without the timer they will have that CD every pull.
This is basic math, you remove the timer, you basically remove every cooldown in the game, you can even have Lust and 3+ brez every pull.
Ya group of 3 blood dks, 1 healer and 1 dps doing +40 is the epytomy of fun!
I can’t tell if you’re just not able to comprehend what I’m saying or trying to just stir the pot, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain it yet again.
This isn’t about getting rid of the FOTM or the meta. It’s about re-balancing the meta around a more traditional RPG system that takes us away from the arpg diablo-esque balancing meta m+ has pushed us into.
The end result is a system that more resembles rock-paper-scissors D&D balancing where classes can have individual strengths and weaknesses but still be viable for m+ comps. It also allows for different approaches to m+ besides just run and gun.
Horrible idea, good to know Blizzard won’t listen to OP.
This is the core issue that M+ defenders can’t understand. Content like M+ narrows class design quite a bit or limits some classes from participating due to lacking the utility needed for timed run and gun content.
Epitome. Please use the internet as the knowledge gift it was designed to be.
They’re literally doing exactly this with Torghast so 
you’re wrong, but ok.
Yeah but they ain’t doing it with Mythic+, enjoy siting in Torghast all day in Shadowlands then.
Your low tier bait implied it was a terrible idea, which Blizzard seems to disagree with. And if people like Torghast, guess what they’ll apply a winning formula to next. 
It seems to be a very good one regardless. Even better than try to make a boss which everyoen and their mom will have it datamined 10 weeks before it launchs.
Timers enrichs RPG by a lot btw.
You have that already in High keys, and timers too.
Amazing i know.
Nop.
Its literally a timer. Major difference is that M+ are actually easier and you get a reward despite the timer ending.
Well i don’t have an issue with either of them.
I am sorry english isn’t my native language. It’s my 4th.
Just like logic isn’t your thing either. Well, actually its a way worse situation… but hey
/pet
There’s no evidence of this. Some people like the timer, some people don’t like the timer. A LOT of people do the timer because that’s just the reality of the game right now.
There’s also no evidence that numbers of deaths wouldn’t be even more challenging than a timer. It’s really just a matter of tuning the parameters of the encounter for either mechanic.
No, it’s perfectly logical that a multilingual person would look up the word they intend to use so as not to do it wrong. But hey.
/pet
This isn’t what would happen.
Raiding is already where this devolves into. Now imagine raid tuning where landing a kill at all is the challenge and you can only bring 5 people.
You think they won’t bring the microscope on balance through the roof?
Um shamans were widely coveted in groups.
Your opinion. Funny how people to this day still talk quite fondly of the Vanilla WoW dungeon experience.
It is really sad how narrow minded so many people that play this game have become. You guys act like speed running dungeons is the only way to make tough 5 man dungeon content.
It was a lazy solution to try to extend the limited dungeon content this game puts out every expansion. It seriously was the most laziest route they could have taken. This kind of design permeates the entire game.
This is my biggest beef with M+. It is totally required content for competitive players trying to gear up. I loved arena and BFA was so frustrating getting stomped by scrubs in m10+ gear.
People keep telling me M+ is optional, but when you are just starting out in rated PVP, it is almost impossible to climb with grinding M+ gear. Sure you get better gear as you rank up, but try starting out in entry level WQ or dungeon gear and you will see how much M+ gear as disrupted rated pvp.
M+ should have been optional content that rewards cosmetics and achievements, like it was in WoD.
Timers never should have left Challenge Modes, imo.
M+ should just be about conquering challenging content, not speed running for maximum rewards.
It is just another symptom of a larger problem with the game, though.
How do you bring the game back to feeling rewarding without showering us in gear after doing it for two expansions.
You can’t just take it all away cold turkey, people will freak out.
If nothing changes the game will just be an endless cycle of number squishing every time we start breaking into raid boss levels of power.
They’ve really painted themselves into a corner with BFA.
Ah ya there is, the way you plan your path and how to use your resources drastically changes. It is a pretty nice feeling and enviroment for a rpg.
A lot of people do raids to pvp because its the reality of game rn. They dont ask raids to change though.
Instead of asking for timeless content you just straight up asked to it be changed.
Although here is the thing, there is plenty of timeless content with a lot of rewards.
Timers requires more skill therefore they reward better gear and nothing else aside from that.
Oh i would do that if the subject/person in fact… did matter. Alas, you pretty much agreed which what i said since you keep avoiding it. People would cheese it up to the point it becomes as good content as dailies.
It was also Vanilla Devs opinion. As they stated.
Thats why TBC and Wrath didnt have any more dungeons like BRD for instance or Scholo… or LBRS+UBRS. Really cool to do all of it the first time but in a game which half of the gameplay is farming DGs for gear the playerbase simple started to cut dungeons by themselves. BRD is a prime example of that, in classic most groups aim to a specific boss and are done with it. Hell even the empereor run is literally a Lava run.
Also i was a shaman main in Vanilla till wrath.
He is right, if you weren’t resto nobody wanted you at all and after the changes to totem buffs being raid wide people would bring one single shaman and thats all lol. Hybird tax was terrible.
If you think balancing, introducing and maintaining M+ dgs is a lazy thing you have no idea what you are talking about.
Nothing should be like it was in WoD. I find it funny you avoid saying the pvp gear scaling in WoD wasn’t a lazy solution at all.
Ya at the start of BfA(till 8.1.5 i believe) 5 tanks could do a + 15 because DPS scaling was atrocious bad before 375+ mark. Hell people did Mythic Uldir with prot palies and nothing. I only came back in 8.3 so i have yet to see 5 tanks doing high keys.
Btw high keys are 20+.
That would be pretty cool tbh.
You could use cutting % of dps, health and etc for anything to balance any enviroment. However it would be terrible. Even worse as it is today. Doing 50% less damage just because you are in a dungeon makes no sense at all. Would be like reducing 50% of DPS HP for no reason other than “they feel too tanky”. Whats the point of gearing with such arbitrary limitations?
When M+ is a literal loot pinata of gear just under Mythic raid gear there is nothing optional about it. It’s a shame.
WoW was, and still is for now, the leading mmorpg for group PvE content. The direction the game is taking, by way of spreading over so many different game modes, is killing it.
You just can’t balance 4 different game modes within one game without putting a giant black line between them.