You can’t balance RPG PvP. It’s not possible. Even separating it into two separately balanced games didn’t make it work. They should have embraced the rock-paper-scissors reality of it, in my opinion, but that’s a whole different can of worms.
I refuse to do dungeon or M+ for the time crunch and gogogo alone. I wish they’d get rid if it, but I have no expectation of it ever happening.
Aye. It’s not for everyone, which is why there are several different endgame paths. People who don’t like the timer can raid. It’s a win/win.
Not like islands I don’t believe. The failure of islands was that at some point ya just pull the whole island and call it a day. No exploration, no increased difficulty. If Torghast progressively increases difficulty it beats islands.
That’s what I mean about being interested in how they pull it off. Islands were/are a failure. I’d hate to see torghast go the same way. I think having 2 major expansion features (islands and warfronts) flop so hard is one of the reasons people dislike BFA so much.
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Do you… do you even do end game content? You know you can only clear heroic once a week right? And that m+ is basically the best way to get geared for pvp and mythic by miles? And that it’s the only way to farm high ilvl corruption gear in the game that doesn’t have a cap?
I honestly can’t say I can take your opinion seriously considering how out of touch you are with the way things are in the game currently.
But isn’t that what they do for higher levels of difficulty for raids? Make the mobs hit harder, the bosses hit harder and have extra mechanics? So in a way it would be making mythic dungeons fit the title the same way that mythic raids do - a shorter instance with a smaller group on a higher level of difficulty.
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I agree with that. Warfronts… just ugh.
If Torghast can keep the spirit of a rogue lite I believe it can be amazing. But to do that the difficulty curve has to be there.
However, what worries me is what seems to be a sort of trial run with visions. The difficulty between just boss to zones killed it for some and on the other hand the progress perks from mother quickly make the entire thing negligible.
The difficulty curve is off in visions, they aren’t endless and there’s a timer. Torghast will have to be something different to succeed. And I really want it to, a solo actually challenging and rewarding mode for endgame. Yes please.
Here we go again.
Raiding is 12+2 rolls of 25% at loot, with every class having access to weapons with guaranteed corruption. This takes about 4 hours to full clear. Raids drop better trinkets and have higher item level azerite, on top of the weapons.
M+ is infinitely repeatable, but the gear caps out lower and it takes more effort per roll on the loot, and the loot is from a larger table. More RNG.
To me, this seems like a good compromise. M+ isn’t required to raid, as evidenced by the plethora of people with AotC and poor/no IO, but I do see this argument often.
The “mathy” answer is in the gear curve. In the first couple of weeks, you get gear faster by doing m+ because every piece that drops is basically a 15 item level upgrade, however at about 9 slots, it intersects with raiding because the randomness of it (whole Dungeon loot pool) is outweighed by gear sharing in raids. This usually happens week 2-3, assuming you raid 4 hours OR m+ 8 hours (both with success). Once you get to the last 1-2 spots, where you’re probably looking for a particular drop (say the bleed sword from KR or the infinite star sword from carapace for example) the graph is so far apart it’s basically unreadable.
TL,DR: mythic + gearing is faster at first (because it’s repeatable) but slower than raiding in the back 9, which is a reasonable compromise, imho.
Not sharing your opinion doesn’t make me out of touch.
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There can’t be a ‘‘number of lives’’ in a game that has no finite end point for your life. You get rezzed at release. Therefore any balancing at that point is… N/A.
Tuning in WoW is not done around the ‘‘timer’’ mechanic. This game has always been wonky on tuning. Depending on what they put into a dungeon, the affix, etc… you’ll always have a top and bottom spec.
The more important details when diving deeper, only reveals that the repetitions in specs used etc, (i.e. META) is more of a higher end, competitive situation.
I have no idea what you are trying to say. It’s simple, you enter the dungeon and every time someone dies a counter goes down. Once the counter is depleted, your “progression run” is over, and it would be just a chest run. It’s simple.
If you played this game at basically any level that isn’t trivial, you’re influenced by the meta. In fact, even if you are a casual player, you’re still influenced by the meta because now all the specs have to be redesigned so rdruid isn’t the only healer in m+.
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The only way this would work is that you couldn’t be rezzed. Die, dead for the whole run.
Along with balancing the bosses so that taking some combination of tanks and healing dps didn’t become the new thing. The only way I can imagine that working is forcing role counts, but immersion breaking things like that are why they disagree with the timer in the first place.
Most of it is community perception… and no I mean Mythic, or high + keys. Rest is really just filthy casual stuff. You are deluding yourself if you think a counter would fix something that doesn’t exist.
Blizzard didn’t implement the timer, or shorten dungeons 'cause they wanted to. People complained that they didn’t want to be in dungeons for hours on end. And the timers were a way to keep dungeons relevant.
I’m not sure what you are trying to grasp at. Balancing will always be wrong for someone who , their favorite spec doesn’t have all the utility and OPness that perhaps another spec has.
Like I said, the balancing is wonky… always has been… there is always a top and bottom. Hence why PEOPLE choose to do the Meta, or FOTM roll. A non-timer option solves nothing with dungeons…
That timer, like it or not … has brought quite a bit of life into dungeons that a lot of players love.
And a counter of sorts, doesn’t fix it… or making it more ‘‘immersive’’. It surely won’t fix any balance issues… as well as community perception.
It’s always been a competitive bit of content. I’m not sure they’d be able to make it ‘‘more immersive’’. I don’t think that’s an issue that a lot of players have with it.
They just don’t like the stress of a timer. But that’s not going anywhere… it’s just the system a lot of games adopt.
I can’t tell if you’re just not able to comprehend what I’m saying or trying to just stir the pot, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain it yet again.
This isn’t about getting rid of the FOTM or the meta. It’s about re-balancing the meta around a more traditional RPG system that takes us away from the arpg diablo-esque balancing meta m+ has pushed us into.
The end result is a system that more resembles rock-paper-scissors D&D balancing where classes can have individual strengths and weaknesses but still be viable for m+ comps. It also allows for different approaches to m+ besides just run and gun.
I agree with you, just humoring the argument.
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People are already 5 stacking tanks to run high keys.
/face palm/
This chit-chat isn’t going anywhere… you really are deluding yourself if you believe that will be the result of a ‘‘death counter’’…
And what mistaken belief. Have you EVER seen them balance something to a point that there wasn’t a FOTM… or a META…
Short of making gear drops only work in their respective content (easier for PvP, not as much mythic+) it will always be “required” by anyone who wants to use all possible avenues for improvement.
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What if a Pet Battler wants to gear up through Pet Battles… /s
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