There have been many reasons why gear would not be allowed to be in untimed m+. Primarily because they would be farmed in the first week of a patch, making heroic raids irrelevant. Secondly they would be farmed by bad players who didn’t deserve the gear and were simply willing to spend hours in the dungeon to get it.
There would be a slight increase in participation if they were untimed, and then a massive drop off as players realized how boring it is to do the exact same dungeon over and over with no change whatsoever.
It’s funny to me that no one is begging for Blizzard to let them reprog raids over and over and just let the bosses be more difficult after you killed the last one because without the timer that’s what m+ would basically be.
Best? Nah
Not even close. I avoid mythic plus because it’s not enjoyable.
Bring me old BC heroic content that wrecked your face without gimmick affixes or timers.
Bring me fun long dungeons and 5-10 man content that you can scale up to and action care hidden phases like ulduar had.
Timers aren’t fun.
2 Likes
Voicing my support for this. Timer should either be removed or made optional.
As a tank. I hate go go go.
2 Likes
Can’t reconcile the timer with classes meant to go slower and the AoE cap change is not going to fix it. As others who are far more experienced than I am have already said it’s just going to be the same favored classes pulling one group at a time. Why is simple. Nobody is going to bring a poorly tooled out caster just so they can pull more than 1 pack at a time. I mean imagine doing Atal with all casters so you can pull multiple packs then have zero damage on Vol’kaal because the encounter forces you to move every .5 seconds.
It’s just a combination of class design and encounter design being at odds, which I’ve said numerous times over the past 2 years.
Did you even play back then? We used to speed run those dungeons all the time. In fact, since they were part of the attunement process, we used to run them on the regular all the damn time, so we got to the point where we pulled entire rooms into the boss because “lol it’s heroic”. We’d run with 4 dps and a tank because it was dumb dumb bam bam.
What people remember is being undergeared AF and having no path to black temple gear and having heroics be difficult for that reason. Now that everyone basically has access to heroic raid gear from multiple avenues, it’s not that hard any more.
Here’s an experiment. Have a group of 415 or less item level people run a mythic 0. Not 3-4 and one guy who’s 465. Everyone in the group.
That’s what you remember. That’s where the curve is. “Lol, it’s too easy to stomp at 435”. Just short sighted.
I got plenty of stories but I’m not gonna waste them on you. People like me that have been playing the game for years are the lifeblood of this game. I want more technical dungeons where pulls have to be planned with CC and slows and if you screw up you’re dead not this rush to beat the timer bull. I’d like for people to socialize “Back in the day” you felt a sense of accomplishment when completing a dungeon now its hollow and caters to people like you.
2 Likes
I enjoy it I hate the timer. I’d be happy if they had two versions of it.
Put affixes that discourage DPS from telling tanks to pull more mobs. Example: a group/party is fighting more than 5 enemies mob the mobs get reduce damage taken from all sources for 30% such numbers like this
5 mobs: 30%
6 mobs: 40%
7 mobs: 50%
… 10 mobs 80%
Then rebuff the tanks to their legion days… so ten mobs you can survive for like 30minutes just sitting there. Buff healer mana reg for pve and done. DPS get punished.
You aren’t doing m+ I’m afraid. Yes it’s called m+ but it’s not. Keys below 15 are roflstomp and that’s what you’re seeing. It’s like complaining to remove normal mode raiding.
The amount of cc required to do m+ is absurd. Every cc, kick, stun, trap, knock whatever is accounted for. You pull fast yes but that does not remove the cc. You have to save your cc for the correct times. It’s a different kind than of old you don’t just press poly once a minute and single target the other guy down.
I would suggest downloading MDT, making a route, getting your group in discord and planning the packs before the dungeon. And don’t do it in keys that are so easy it does t matter what you do. You have to do it in stuff where the damage actually matters. Why tf else would you cc if it just tickles everyone???
Those who think the best players in the world are timing keys because the pull the biggest packs and just aoe nuke are fooling themselves and would be 150% wrong
I want harder fights more strategy and more socializing so you can feel a sense of accomplishment not just oh I beat the timer loot please.
This isn’t true. You will bring classes with uncapped aoe to dungeons where you need to do bigger pulls. Then bring good cleave classes to dungeons where the packs are spread and theres not much trash. I also don’t know where you get this idea that casters don’t do good st dmg? Currently yazma would probably be the worst for casters and playing smart basically eliminates that anyway
Uhhh… the sense of accomplishment comes from beating the timer? There would be no sense of accomplishment if you could just spend as much time in there as you wanted. Also once again, there is farrrrr more strategy required for m+ pulls than there EVER was in the hardest of dungeons before legion.
Yes it was mind numbingly easy. I could have pushed past 15 if I really felt like getting a decent group together. My point is the timer is a pain.
1 Like
I didn’t say casters don’t do good ST damage. I said encounters which require a lot of movement kneecap their damage which is a different argument.
Also comparing Yazma to Vol’kaal is erroneous. It’s not even the same ballpark of movement required.
A lot of people get that sense of accomplishment in beating a timer, especially as you advance to more difficult ones.
I’ve beaten the timer it feels hollow. You like that crap good for you. I don’t
Oh yeah a lot of people do. I’m not one of them.
I’ve been playing MMORPG’s for 18 years; longer than WoW has been released. I’ve played most of the MMORPG’s out there. I will confidently say, if the timer was removed people wouldn’t sit around for lust for every pack. They’d just disband.
Using Timers is a game feature, just not a feature adopted by MMORPG’s. So it feels tacked on and makes the game feel like another genre that it’s not. I do think dungeons should scale, and in the future adapt to the player. They should be challenging.
I don’t even think there needs to be keys, timers, or death count meters. Just let players select the difficulty they want and let them go at it. The MMO CoH did this and the player base loved it.
2 Likes
That was mainly a function of no aoe tanking ability. Once paladin could aoe tank in tbc, people flocked to dungeons that could be aoe tanked. From there the other tanks got aoe in wrath and cc was no more basically.