Hell no. I dont want to spend 2 hours in a dungeon because people want to take it slow. Its a challenge mode. The timer is the challenge. Just let it be
I wouldnt mind with a boomy, mage and hunter because you could beam and stack them till it was over, mage kicks bwonsamdi’s, hunter kicks augurs aoe. DB the heal, stun augur again and you could get the casters down fast enough with combust and incarn
Edit: i wouldnt even mind priest with stun and fear. Lock could also fear the casts, and dont forget tank kicks and cc
Hmm for the priestess pack with trip ranged i would probably play the 2 priestess mobs with the 2 pack on the stairs (just have one of the ranged pull to tank) and then i dont think that pack would still be hard… only tough part i think would be stopping augur casts… no easy snap spot so healer would have to dodge while range stacked melee… I think it wouldnt be that bad
#1 Considering your raider io score on only 819 (your highest of all seasons), you really aren’t in a position to tell others how M+ should be conducted… especially those more serious about M+ whose opinions actually matter.
#2 If M+ dungeons only had a flat death count to determine if a run is successful or not… this is prone to exploiting or cheese strats; such as bringing only classes with high leech, immunities, etc, all tanks, all healers, or groups who intentionally go very slow, who only pull 1 pack of mobs at a time and heal up to full between each pull, etc.
#3 so due to #2, a timer is required and a necessity, especially due to the fact that players will just simply heal up to full between each pull and take zero risks if they had no timer to worry about.
#4 This is the top reason: the fact that on raider io there is an endless amount of groups beating the timers on +25 and higher keys while you’re complaining about the timer when your highest key completed on time is barely a +14 Freehold, the easiest of all BFA dungeons with four 1.7-2k+ players (aka. you were carried), and overall you only have 2 timed runs to your name, should instantly tell you that the problem with M+ dungeons isn’t the timer, instead it’s you. You simply lack the skill and/or don’t know how to play your class, period.
Overall, If no group was able to beat the timer on high keys, then you may have a real argument against the timer, but the simple fact that there are countless (literally thousands) groups listed on raider io’s leaderboards who clear +20 keys and higher, even keys higher than +25, gives you definitive proof/evidence that there is zero issue with the timer, rather you’re using it as an excuse to mask your lack of skill as a tank, your ability to clear M+ keys on time, and/or your laziness or lack of capability to organize/join decent M+ groups.
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Adding a no timer mode would do more to hurt the scene than just getting rid of timers.
You want a hard time pugging as Survival? Dramatically reduce the available keys by creating different kind of mechanically listed runs.
This is called an ad hominem. 
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continue reading rather than focusing on one point and neglecting the rest.
Hard to debate with him because he does this and doesnt read or ignores the parts that explain why hes wrong
Best post of the year! explains it perfectly.
Now get rid of the timer!
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Definitely has merit, but I think we can agree by the 4 million+ keys done above 16 this season that the timer is not failing. Many many people love the timer. As to his suggestion that they add complexity every level, that definitely has potential, but it would be very hard to implement in an infinitely scaling system. You’d have to think of hundreds of affixes instead of the ones we have now, and people may never see half of them, which would be a waste… would be tough to do. tougher to balance than M+ for sure. Would also lock a meta i think worse than it currently is… only some classes could deal with the tougher affixes and therefore would always be brought.
You do realize that the timer is 100% inconsequential if all you care about is a weekly 15 and/or getting loot, right?
Removing the timer in content that’s designed to be a race against the clock is
a stupid idea that usually comes from someone who doesn’t do M+ seriously at all. Stay in your lane.
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Timer + Bursting = Dumb… The only thing the timer is good for is reinforcing the go go mentality and catering to those with fragile egos who need to prove themselves in a video game. I want more technical pack pulls with cc like back in the day.
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By “technical” I assume what you really mean is hard cc to fight less mobs at a time? Excuse trash now is far more complicated than it was “back in the day”
I like anyone who uses expressions like “back in the day”.
Tell us more stories about how hard dungeons used to be please. Have any good stories about spending all night in a BFD because the prot warrior you had didn’t know you could switch targets in combat?
Kinda defeats the purpose of Mythic+.
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But imagine players who actually enjoy M+ the way it is. Kind of dumb to drastically change it to accommodate for people who aren’t even interested in it.
The funny thing is the fact that this problem is already solved. I see a lot of groups who advertise that they arn’t going for time. It’s not like you need to beat the time to get gear or anything. If it literally kicked you out of the dungeon and into the GY I could see the need for this post. As it stands it doesn’t so what exactly is the problem?
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Bursting is generally agreed upon to be one of the easiest affixes… Can you tell me how you’re dying and maybe I can give you some tips.
Also, if you’re looking for technical pulls, then look no farther than M+ with a timer my friend. There is more cc now then there ever has been in the game.
I will give you an example of the start of an atal run: rogue is preassigned to the priestess. dh is preassigned to the augur. Healer is in the snap spot. hunter is going to be on reserve. we run in, lust. tank picks up all the mobs, healer sprints to snap spot. we chaos nova everything, start dpsing. rogue and dh both kick, then rogue gouges bwonsamdi’s. hunter kicks augur. hunter traps augur. tank drags slowly away, dh incaps augur. healer soothes enrage. tank stuns pack. good clean pull.
that pull requires a lot of coordination and timing. It may seem easy on paper but if that pull goes wrong in any way - any kicks missed, theres pretty much auto death. if we miss kick or stun or incap on swirly flames, healer cant move so he dies. Then the jugg starts charging the melee, and one shots everyone. If we miss bwonsamdis then 2 or 3 augur casts go off - thats probably a death unless we use an immunity. every piece of cc is planned for every pull before we step in the dungeon.
the timer is easily beaten. you dont have to rush to beat it, you just cant stop and chat in between each pull.
Mythic+ is already a chore in itself. Why would I want to be sitting around for 2 hours because my group wants to take it slow so they dont die.
I have to agree with you there. I mean there could be a possible 5 ilvl difference for doing it timed, and they still would not want us folks that will not do M+ because of the timer.
Without the timer, there would be a good 50% increase in M+ participation for sure.
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Yet all those people who would be flooding M+ all refuse to do it without worrying about the timer now. They must not want to do it that badly.