Alright, just letting you know whats waiting for you. Like i said, 2 options would be fine if they made sure gear was not farmable in the untimed one
Solid logic to me. If it’s not fun in a game, don’t do it. I definitely can’t argue against that.
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“You think you do, but you don’t.” 
To each their own. I’m just saying not to let a few rare cases of rotten apples ruin apples entirely for you.
But if your issue is with the dungeons themselves and not the players, yeah, nothing we can really suggest.
To be fair he literally said
Nothing in mythic+ and and nothing in warmode would ever make me step foot in either
so its not that he doesn’t find it fun, he just had one bad experience and decided to let that ruin it for him
I don’t think anyone is actually saying that in this thread, lol. And it’s a statement that Ion was mostly right about anyways.
Dungeons were my favorite part of WoW, but because of the go go go I have rarely stepped foot in one for a few years now. Did Mechagon once for allied race, and a few others for the story and to open up stuff.
Why dont you make your own group then?!?!?!? Why are you doing this to yourself? You just said it was your favorite part of the game??? Below a 15, as long as you have the acceptable gear there is no gogogo unless you’re in a tryhard MDI emulating group. But that cancels if you make your own?
Oh, and if you (or other alliance toons ) wanna group up for a key every now and then, please let me know. While I’m definitely not a rockstar, I can promise to keep the run relaxed and chill - maybe with some cheesy commentary 
Fairlight#1833
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No, cause they won’t actually finish it it a timely manner to gear themselves out. Or they won’t complete it at all. As so many mythic+ players say when capping rewards comes up, you aren’t guaranteed loot, you aren’t guaranteed loot you want. If I take 3 hours to clear a dungeon for no loot, or for a belt I already have, I am not going to gear out quickly much less want to keep choosing that option. However, for players who cannot progress otherwise, or who for whatever reason hate timers, it gives them an option albeit punishing and slower than doing timed keys.
Waiting on CDs is an option but easily negates its bonus with the trade off of time loss. You might be able to clear packs you couldn’t otherwise clear, but you wouldn’t want too cause it wastes too much time to do so. Time expended in one activity leads to time lost for another.
If a timed option for mythic+ remains then there is nothing lost with allowing bad players to waste time gearing much slower. They won’t catch you.
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Not sure why this hadn’t crossed my mind yet, but man would people rage.
I am all for new additional forms of content and progression. Simply taking away the timer and adding a death count would work as a new form as an option from M+.
The death counter would have to be so tight that everyone would have to be set up to never die, or the mechanics would have to be all one-shot mechanics. Both of which would make the meta be 4 tanks + a super tanky healer. Or maybe even just 5 tanks.
As others have stated the timer helps to enforce a balance of tankiness and damage, for the same reason that raid bosses have enrage timers.
For those asking for the dungeons to be more like raids. We already have raids, go do those.
I think a different version of the dungeon challenge could be done by having EVERYTHING in the dungeon do progressively more damage, akin to enrage timers. You upgrade to the next level by simply completing the key, but the longer it would take the more difficult everything is, to the point where it would be impossible.
The downside to something like that is the enrage would have to start after failing what would be akin to a triple upgrade, or upgrading keys would be too easy.
I also don’t care for this idea, as it basically only punishes the healer, which is one of the things i don’t care for about many of the affixes currently.
You’re using the logic that it needs to happen quickly. It doesn’t. Doing 1 key a night, with a 3 drops per key, some of which arent upgrades so can be traded… 2-3 weeks you’re max geared. Also, your not taking into account that those players don’t deserve the loot. They used cheese gimmicky strategies to get it. They also have no other options to gear faster. Spamming these boring long keys that give 465 is better than them doing the low ones they do fast for 440. That time loss is WELL worth it. You’re missing the point. These player dont deserve the loot. As I’ve sent plenty of times already, the loot system is already bloated, this would make it unreal. Why not just give everyone all their gear when they log in and call it a day? Doesnt matter if they catch me, idc if they put in the effort for it. Its that they didn’t earn it at all.
Srry man I already know the meta for the enrage style… It sounds cool but it wouldnt work… The strat would be to pull EVERYTHING at the start and nuke it all down since it hasnt enraged yet and was still easy. Theres also still the same old problem of someone would find the best trash to pull on the second day of the patch and it would never change. The timer is what influences and forces creativity and thats what makes M+ fun in the first place
You can’t do that in SL
Yes you can. Several classes are still uncapped in aoe, (i believe tanks are as well, not sure though… imagine 4 warrior tanks doing this lol, not that i think that would actually happen) and even at 8 target cleave the strat would be to pull as many mobs as possible in order to not waste time moving from pack to pack and risk the mobs becoming more enraged.
No. That would assume that you could actually complete a +15 in gear that is only good for a +5. More time isn’t going to save you when the adds are one shotting the tank.
You also aren’t really accounting for items that are repeats. This isn’t a 25man raid, you will get pieces that are useless for everyone. In 2-3 weeks doing dungeons every night you could go up another 10 ilvls if you were lucky.
Which I can already do if I spam mythic+ for 3 hours every night in timed keys. Except I would have vastly more gear and the gear I want spamming timed keys.
Which is so odd to me. Not to sidebar too hard, but that paradigm change will make some pulls in leveling dungeons (BFA ones now) a bit odd for some classes. Like that group just prior to the first boss in Shrine. Those three elites with the droplets - aoe capped at five and you’re targeting the spiritualist but the cleave hits mostly the little droplets.
I’m exciting to try something new, but just seems like it might have some unintended consequences.
I could do a current +15 in 430 gear if I wanted to spend hours in there. It would not be hard I would just have to be willing to make the commitment. It would actually be quite easy except on tyrannical weeks. I have in fact this patch boosted a tank and instantly done a 10 at ilvl 398 after 3 chesting my 2,5, and 8. Not timing it would be a literal joke. You are not accounting for other people in the group not needing the piece they got. and yes but you would earn that gear you spent in timed keys wouldn’t you have? Not to mention getting your mythic quality loot from the box the first and second week, which is like a 10 ilvl upgrade right off the bat, and which you can choose from in SL. A very very small percentage of the population can do that currently
What you are missing from that is that if they aren’t timing keys cause they are bad, then they can’t do what you can.
However, if they can but want to take things at a slower pace then it’s fine.