You have a choice. Do a lower key where the timer isn’t as tight. Or do m0 where there is no timer.
The timer is the mechanism for punishing mistakes. You even still get loot for a busted timer, you only lose a key level. It’s already the most forgiving challenge in the game.
If they removed the timer, they’d have to find another way to punish mistakes, and those would likely stonewall groups more than the timer ever could.
I just wish doing lower keys/M0 had a more tangible benefit. The gear is basically worthless.
Experience is what you get for running lower keys, which translates into being able to run higher keys.
The equivalent ask for someone like me would be to make all outdoor mobs elites with 10m+ HP (scaled for group size), so we can bump world quest loot up a few notches.
Or to have PvP optionally match me against NPCs so I can cap that way.
Lol let’s be honest here, the only reason you’re asking for things like permadeath is as an exaggerated punishment. No permadeath, just a simple death count and possibly stronger bosses that make death a higher likelihood. That’s all we need to make up for the lack of timer.
How about, as I suggested I’m the second part of my post, timers come in between affixes. So every level that adds a new affix, no timer, when a new affix isn’t added a timer is. So you learn the affix(es) then learn to deal with them under a timed situation. After 10 when no new affixes come, the timer gets tighter and tighter.
That’s actually really interesting and worth experimenting with imo. I’d love to test some kind of content out that works that way, just to see how it feels. Nice overall post.
I’d actually be happy experimenting with this too. Although the result for me would be that I’d be doing just the ones that have no timer.
Ok, so say you don’t even have keys. You pick a difficulty, then you lose 5 item levels off the end chest for every death. Coupled with the increased boss difficulty, one shot mechanics, dampening, or whatever else, it’s an engaging and difficult (but Timer free) experience.
Let’s be honest here, the timer has no bearing on the run. If you do the run and make no mistakes, you’ll beat the timer every single time. What people are asking for us less risk for the same reward. It’s poppycock.
you know all this issue will be fix simply by getting better at the game right? No one will quit keys. No one will rage. No key will be run out of time because people do sub 20k dps or dont know mechanics. But hey let’s keep making excuses why we wanna dumb down an already dumb down game
Nope, just a simple death count. If you run out of deaths, your key doesn’t upgrade. You’re just trying to make it overly punishing so that you’re not stuck in queue for timed m+ because now everyone’s doing the much more fun alternative.
At the very least, I know timed m+ would lose a lot of tank players queueing for it.
I just feel like I could do a 100 +5s or whatever and they won’t prepare me. I’d also get nothing out of any of that and it’d feel like a complete waste of time because they yield nothing.
It’s very easy to make a mistake unfortunately, especially when so much of it one-shots you and you don’t always see it coming. It’s extremely nervewracking because the entire run is one giant eggshell walk. I just wish M+ was more forgiving.
They could always lock the lust count in the same way they did with b-rez.
It’s not as if people wouldn’t push for time anyways. I see plenty of “fast clear” N’ylotha groups running right now and there is no reward nor incentive for that.
Speed is its own reward. It frees up your time to do other things.
going with a hard pass. it removes the a large portion of the challenge.
not only that the first week good groups with the right comp will be able to cheese out much higher key levels than they would otherwise because of no timer.
It’s not logical to drastically change something that’s already successful. That’s a great way to turn people off.
there’s is hardly any 1 shot in the dungeons now. Most are if you dont move from bad then you it’s a 1 shot.
Know what you’ll get? Experience. If you keep an eye on the run and see how people who knows what they’re doing how they pull, what they pull and what they skip then you’re already better off. It’s not always about the gear. Get better and the gear will come.
It already does. It comes in at + 2 and is removed below that.
Because it matches the level of challenge.
The only one shot I can think that exists in anything below a 20 is if you completely solo-soak the charge on the KR Council boss with no cooldowns.
So if you don’t do that, you’re good to go avoiding the one shots.
Even at a 5 you should be getting a basic grasp of the mechanics that are especially nasty, like the Freehold Traps, the slams on the KR Robots, the AoE Shadowbolts in Shrine, etc.
These get nastier the higher you go, but the same principle of avoiding them is going to be exactly the same even in a 20.
People would still wait for cooldowns, and if you pushed them, it would become a necessity, since you’d be able to go significantly higher than you currently do, and with OP’s proposed system, the only way to fail a key is through wiping.
I have told you countless times how forgiving the timer is. I have gone afk to throw up multiple times in a single run as the healer and the group waited and we still timed it.
I had chain dc issues and reset my router and restarted my computer and we still timed it.
I have had 25 deaths in a run and still timed it.
The timers are not tight.
Also you can’t seriously be saying that doing 100 +5s would not prepare you for a +6.
Maybe? Even in current M+ (after failing timer) you don’t sit around waiting for lust…but maybe if a +1 key depended on it… i guess they might.
I meant cap lust full stop. 3 lusts per key max, period.
I still think people would try to rush keys anyways. For the same reason they rush heroics, raids, bgs where possible, you name it.
Why spend 30 minutes if you can do it in 15?
Because in this system going slower improves your chance to increase the key. If the goal is to have limited deaths then you wait for all cds and use cc every pack to reach maximum key level. That would be boring horrible game play obviously