Normal, Heroic, and base mythic difficulty exists for you and awards gear at a rate and level the corresponds with the difficulty.
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Not only should the timer be less but you should also get a debuff if you stop moving
Come at me bro!
While I don’t really do that much mythic+ and won’t speak for whether this is a good idea for not, I promise you most people would not do this every hard pack.
Players of MMOs care way too much about efficiency to wait after every hard pack for lust.
But the “remove timer” crowd obviously doesn’t.
Speaking completely ignorant on the subject, Mythic + is the penultimate challenge mode right?
So the timer is part of that challenge.
what could also happen is people hard cc everything and pull 1 mob at a time. Kinda boring if you ask me.
Which is totally useless and pointless if you’re already doing Ny’alotha.
Would the crowd against removing the timer be fine if it stayed above a certain level and be removed at lower level keys. Much like how in Legion +2 I believe didn’t have an affix. Like maybe the timer come in with the 3rd affix at level 7.
Or the timer come in at levels in between affixes, so +2 adds affix, +3 adds a timer, +4 new affix no timer, +5 and +6 add timer and so on.
yes but it scale more the higher level you do
That seems fair to me. Kinda reminds me of Path of Exile. Except in Path of Exile I can have armies of npcs fight for me… maybe I should make an unholy DK just to try out this Mythic plus… That’s “Close”
nah these crowd will still complain because it’s not a +15 which is the higher ilvl gear you can get
Removing the timer is a a huge punishment if you value your time at any reasonable level.
30 minutes, sure. 2 hours? Better spent with my head on my desk.
Sure. Put the timer in at +10 and let’s call it a day.
Ruin the format for who? I fail to see how adding options is a bad thing. Leave the timer there for ranking and prestige but the timer should have no bearing on the results otherwise. Allow people the option to pick to increase, decrease, or leave it alone (the key) after completing a run. Time alone has nothing to do with the difficulty.
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I really think the timer should only be for competitive play and leader boards. Otherwise for everyone else who just wants to do them, have fun, and progress the timer shouldn’t have any effect on their ability to complete the key.
(EDIT) Just wanted to add that Torghast will only reinforce the weakness of the Mythic + timer.
Just my opinion.
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The ONLY argument that I’ve seen against removing the timer is that you can wait for cooldowns. Make battle-rez and Bloodlust once per dungeon and you are set. What’s the problem with this now?
You can also approach pulls completely differently with no timer. Necrotic becomes a non-issue if you just sacrifice dps and kite/cc everything. Explosive is only deadly in large pulls, bolstering’s issue is pack size (related to pulling harder) etc etc.
Many of the affixes difficulty comes from trying to deal with them as you move fast, with no timer a multitude of affixes would need to be re-done as well because most wouldn’t offer any change of tactics as long as you just take your time and pull pack by pack.
Again what is wrong with choice? A faster more challenging run or a slower safer run? That sounds an awful lot like a standard dungeon. Let players play ‘standard’ dungeons of M+ where the health, dmg, etc is boosted but no worry of speed.
in the good ole days, CDs where 10 - 60 minutes and if you waited on it you’d be in a dungeon for 6 hrs.
while now, bar shaman Anhk, the longest is 10 minutes.
I don’t believe the player mentality will shift with a change to the M+ timer, but with that said - I do believe the game would be in a better state if the M+ timer were removed.
The timer for M+ is inaccessible by design. There are plenty of players who don’t feel comfortable making the leap into M+ and, as a direct result, more difficult content because the timer puts undue pressure on learning players. Beyond that, the timer is a feature that almost exclusively challenges the tank. In addition, the timer heavily restricts the addition of new and more intriguing M+ mechanics.
The only value the M+ timer has as a feature is a result of the current dungeons being designed with a timer in mind. As an example, if Shadowlands were to design dungeons around an M+ death count, it could mean a more open dungeon plan with significantly greater mob diversity and more active power behind the abilities of trash.
The only two arguments against a change to the M+ timer that I consistently see are…
Timer enforces the difficulty of M+, without it - M+ wouldn't be difficult.
There’s a clear problem with this line of logic, there is plenty of difficult content without timers. The timer is a crutch that allows for lazy dungeon design as it creates artificial difficulty. For example, there’s no reason mobs couldn’t unlock entirely new abilities and statistical variants at the higher keys. There are a million creative and interesting ways to increase the difficulty of a baseline dungeon experience, a timer is an inflexible and static challenge.
What about cooldowns? What about this other problem with your proposed change?
Any new system will face new challenges, but there are solutions to every new challenge. For example, I have two basic ideas to address cooldowns off of the top of my head.
The first is a system where the higher keys have predetermined limits on the number of times an ability can be used. Reincarnation can be used once in the run, for example, Lust can be used twice, Rebirth can be used once - this could be assigned on a per ability basis - meaning that individual balance could be achieved across various classes and be tweaked within the patch cycle if under/overperforming.
The second is a system where each mob is assigned a timer value and you effectively receive a reverse timer - when you use abilities that are determined to be ‘powerful utility’ (Rebirth, Reincarnation, Lust), their timer is frozen. Instead of following a normal cooldown window, their cooldown is only reduced by a number of seconds dependent on the mob killed. This would create a new pathing challenge to best utilize massively powerful utility effects in an optimal manner.
Any change to M+ would need to explore solutions to old problems, but it would also have the potential to resolve current problems in a way the current system prevents.
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