Remove the dmg penalty from Titan's Grip

WoW Classic Cataclysm Classic Discussion
1

Blizzard, please remove the dmg penalty from Titan’s Grip. Fury warriors are middle of the road to low end right now and its extremely frustrating, you all said you wouldn’t buff arms warrior because warrior already had a viable dps spec: Fury, but Fury isn’t really that viable. The raid buff it provides isn’t make or break and can be provided by other dps specs that just do more dmg then Fury does. I’m not asking for crazy huge buffs, I’m just asking for the dmg penalty on Titan’s Grip to be removed. Its stupid easy change that would help the spec quite a lot, would be in line with what the ret buffs are, and could be easily reimplemented if the spec starts taking off by a significant amount in ICC. This version of Fury warrior was balanced around the ICC gear and tier 9 set bonuses, and without that gear, they suffer heavily and are suffering heavily right now.
Again, not asking for crazy buffs, just remove the dmg penalty from titan’s grip.

Edit: Also, removing the dmg penalty from TG would bring it back into line with what the talent originally was in wrath, the dmg penalty wasn’t added to the talent till pretty late into wrath.

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If? That’s a bit of an understatement.

TIL that effectively asking for a 10% damage buff is not a crazy buff.

Interesting.

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Get more armor penetration before making the switch? Pretty sure you wouldn’t want to switch to fury until you’re almost fully geared from Ulduar.

Also, the 10% reduced damage was added in the Ulduar patch after they removed the original penalty (reduced hit chance), not late Wrath. So it’s on par with how it was back in 2009.

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They let DK do absurd damage for nearly all phase 1, what is wrong with fury warrior having 1 good phase?

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They will. In ICC.

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sure, after they revert the 10% nerf

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Nah, armor penetration and higher weapon damage and rage generation mechanics pull them way up as the phases go along. It’s already starting in Ulduar thanks to the ilvl buff to the items in there.

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Thank god, now warriors can stay near the bottom of the pack but be slightly closer to the pack, all the while bringing nothing to the table at all that a superior class wouldn’t bring outside of a 10 second armor reduction on a 5 minute cooldown.

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I mean, you are also describing ret paladins there…

It’s really are you bringing one for commanding shout or a 3rd or 4th divine sacrifice. For most of the content you can go without either. For Algalon progression there are good arguments for both, and extra stam as people gear up can also make both cuttable.

So at that point, you look to their DPS, where warriors are starting to move into the middle of the pack, and rets are falling further behind. Hence, the small ret buffs.

Warriors also got one when they added to the ilvls of all of the Ulduar gear, which they benefit more from due to being extra reliant on gear for their DPS.

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So you agree that the entire warrior class (all 3 specs) is as desirable as paladins least desirable spec? And a warrior is on par with the usefulness of a 4th paladin?

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Fury DPS is more valuable than Ret’s, and will become more so as time goes on, even post buff.

Commanding shout is of similar value to DSac in most fights, (Algalon and maybe XT being the exceptions, but you don’t need a ret for DSac on XT)

People tend to vastly overstate how much worse prot warriors are compared to other options for tanking though. You shouldn’t even notice a difference between the tanks in most raids, but the others have a smoother experience in dungeons.

Ret also suffers from the fact that Blizz made prot/holy too strong in wrath, because the utility ret brings is largely or entirely covered by them because none of it is in the deep ret tree apart from the 3% haste that arcane mages have.

I generally have the view that it’s a waste of time talking about all the “utility” classes bring, as the expansion was largely designed in a way that it doesn’t matter much, because the top DPS classes are also providing major utilities that your raid doesn’t want to miss out on.

So I largely focus on the DPS when a person is choosing a DPS role, which left only ret remaining notably behind the rest of the pack this tier. (Last tier both ret and warrior could have used a temporary boost if class changes like this were on the table)

Warrior suffered from the start low, end high problem this expansion, but for them it’s a smooth climb up the ladder as time goes on. Ulduar is pretty unfriendly to melee, but you start to see fury’s potential in XT’s hard mode.

Rets start low, stay low, and start to recover in phase 3 to get to middle of the pack range by full phase 4 gear thanks to a few exceedingly powerful effects we don’t have access to yet.

But from a DPS potential, warrior > paladin in this phase, and that won’t change from this pally buff.

The ilvl buff blizz put in Ulduar was already a buff to warriors, as each piece of gear upgraded for them typically goes further than on almost anyone else.

Really just need people to stop pointing to holy/prot as reasons ret needs to stay extra bad. It’s fine if we are lowest on the meters, it just shouldn’t be in frost mage tier, which blizz never even tried to make viable in PvE. Warriors already escape that in Ulduar without intervention.

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Tldr; your spec is as desirable as the entire warrior class, but yeah bro, you deserve to be buffed :joy::joy::joy::joy::joy:

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There’s nothing wrong with prot warrior in raids. It survives all the fights on par with the others and generated more threat than the DPS can generate. What does it need? A cheat death added? I’m not seeing wild differences in health or damage taken that would call for you excluding them when looking at fights like Algalon.

And Fury is better at doing it’s DPS role than Ret, and will keep increasing that gap over time with ret never catching up to you again.

What more does it need? Some entirely new ability tacked on that requires you to bring several?

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Class distribution, if you have a prot, you don’t need a fury and vice versa. You “need” 1 single warrior, and even then, you can easily just scrap them entirely for a better tank/dps. Paladins you can stack, you can bring a mix of all the specs and you want a minimum of 3 per raid.

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I agree OP, Blizz should restore the original WotLK release 3.0.2 Titan’s Grip with no damage penalty!

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Honestly, the state of Ret DPS aside, anyone who thinks ret doesn’t bring unique utility to the raid is an absolute joker that I can’t take seriously.

Made even more laughably by how you’re trying to just arbitrarily invalidate your utility for nonsensical reasons. Most utility can be argued to be invalidated after you have the content on farm, everyone is geared up, and the fights take half as long as they used to.

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Well, if you aren’t actively trying to do Algalon specifically, there’s literally no reason to bring a ret if you already are bringing the 2 “S-Tier” specs that people like to reference as reasons ret needs to stay bad, because Ret’s utility is covered by the other good specs of paladin.

So you really should primarily focus on DPS, not utility, when talking about DPS specs. All of the DPS specs across all of the classes have utility, so you can’t arbitrarily ignore it for warriors because “rogues do it better” but hold it against rets, because holy/prot also do it better.

No utility should demand a class be that far behind the pack for a utility that isn’t even unique to them. I’m not over here arguing that fury has to be F-tier because commanding shout is good (it is). The main reason that they don’t need a buff is because their DPS is already moving out of that tier and keeps growing without intervention over time smoothly all the way to the end. Their DPS isn’t on the same level as rets anymore. It it were, they too could have used some love (which they got by the ilvl upgrade without people screaming how unfair it was that warriors got an outsized buff).

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As I suggest here:

Should bake it into the Ulduar set bonus imo.

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You have to admit that Warriors are under represented?
So, Fury should be a good candidate for a buff by Blizzards own criteria no?

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With how the 10% dmg buff is being applied, no, I don’t think that’s a crazy thing. And yes Fury does pick up in ICC, but that’s not gonna be for another 8-10 months, possibly a year. Removing the dmg penalty from titan’s grip gives warrior a nice boost while the gear is lacking right now and then can be reapplied to titan’s grip when they start ramping up more and more.