I’m not a fan of class and spec balancing in Classic as it opens a can of worms. However this can has now been opened with the Unholy nerf and the Ret buff. So, it’s only fair to apply class and spec reviews fairly across all classes.
Btw grats to Ret players.
Given this:
We can safely say the “no changes” stance on class and spec balance is a lost argument.
So, in the interests of ensuring that the under represented class I play is fairly represented I would suggest the following:
Fury is the best bang for buck option for improving Warrior representation.
Therefore a small buff to Fury to stand them in good stead until they start performing in ICC is in order.
I suggest the following will achieve this:
Have the 4 set bonus on t8 be changed such that it removes the 10% damage deficit on Titans Grip.
Thing is… this wasn’t just to ‘balance’ rets. The ret buff was added because they don’t have another spec to play without completely changing their role. Unlike paladin, warrior’s have 2 dps specs. I don’t know much about warriors tbh, never played one to max level, however they do still have 2 dps specs. If for example fury sucks, then go arms. Play whichever one is better. Paladins can’t do that. Paladin’s only have 1 dps spec.
And all the Fury people here are just upset that rets got buffed to bring them to last place (but less in last) but Fury is only middle of the pack.
And they are confusing warriors not being played with warriors being actively avoided, which isn’t happening because Fury is a middle of the pack DPS in this tier with a solid chunk of utility between sunders, an interrupt, commanding shout, passively providing bleeds for the rogues…
Giving fury an additional buff would just be trying to push them into the top tier melee so people start playing the class again.
It was, and then they realized that was a poor argument, so they changed it.
Where are you getting your representation numbers from?
As far as I can see, fury is doing pretty much fine on the harder fights.
Just looking at melee DPS here on Algalon, the fight where your representation is determined mostly by what you are bringing to the raid group at this point…
468 Frost + 478 Unholy DKs
769 rogues
264 furies, 56 Arms… So a little under half despite being one of the “weakest” represented…
323 enhance shaman
170 rets
So… Rets, whom have utility best suited for that fight specifically, that people use as their biggest argument as to why rets are so good that they need to stay bottom of the barrel, are still getting representation at levels about half that of the next lowest melee DPS.
And warrior is right in the middle…
What a terrible place to be!
(Really, DKs and rogues are too strong right now, Warrior’s problems aren’t related to Ret)
There’s no need to. Your spec is all that matters in this case because that’s what Blizzard is balancing around here. Rets don’t care that holy and prot are brought.
I can go with that. Something has to give though. If we’re buffing classes we can’t leave the warrior class behind just because they’re not loud enough.
So what spec is fury supposed to play? Arms? Are they supposed to do less damage than the class that just got buffed (before they even got the buff) whilst also providing nothing to their raid?
Rets could not care less about other classes. They got buffed and half of them are still crying it’s not enough, despite all saying they didn’t care if it was only a minor buff beforehand.
While you see that now all 3 specs are good and viable, I just see them as having buffed paladin’s ONLY dps spec. It just so happens that they are also over-represented and godtier tanks and healers.
I don’t have an answer for you. Merely saying, paladins only have 1 dps spec. Warriors have 2. That’s why rets got buffed, and it seems now it has opened a floodgate for more people to ask for buffs to their class too, to pull them higher up the meters when that wasn’t why ret was buffed. Ret was buffed simply to make their ONLY DPS spec viable. Everyone now asking for buffs to their spec or class are only viewing this as paladin’s now do slightly better damage, without considering Paladin’s only have ret to play as dps.
Unlike a mage for example who frost may not be ideal for PVE but they have 2 other specs that are pretty good that they can play and still be a dps. Paladin’s only have 1 spec they can play as dps, swapping to another spec completely changes their role. That’s the difference. There will always be a few specs at the bottom. Before the buff, ret was usually at the bottom along with warriors. This meant they will always be bottom unless they want to change their role completely, or main a different class. Other specs at the bottom don’t have to be at the bottom if they choose to play a different spec while still maintaining their role.
And tbf, I’m not really even arguing that warriors shouldn’t be buffed, if I were a warrior, I’d be really annoyed that my class as a whole… not even my spec, is bottom tier. I get why warriors are asking for a buff, however my comment was there simply to combat this thinking that since ret’s got buffed and DK gary had it’s EXPOIT fixed, that now means we can all beg and demand for buffs to our classes or specs.
All 3 warrior specs combined are as in demand as ret was, even before they got buffed. You only “need” 1 warrior, and a lot of guilds would rather take literally anything else than take the warrior anyway. Warriors will not be in demand until ICC heroic bis gear… Ret comes online with their T10 set bonus, so they’ll likely be in demand before warriors are. No-one should of ever been buffed, especially to cater to a bunch of crying. But if anyone was ever going to be buffed, ret paladin was not it. They’re in more demand than warriors entire class is.
Yes I’m aware they’re not in demand. This is why I said I’d be really annoyed to if my entire class was bottom tier. I can’t even fault warriors for wanting to be buffed. However, you are also likely only going to take 1 ret. And once again, if you’re a paladin, you have to play ret if you wanna dps. I think that’s the mindset behind the buff. All 3 warrior specs are bottom and I don’t blame warriors for wanting a buff. Just wanted to state my case against the mindset of ‘the rets who cried hard enough got their way, so now I want a buff too.’