Its also now impossible for a guild leader / raid leader to give all the good gear to his “long-time friends” and none of it to players that are new (but experienced enough to be in the guild raid).
That is the ONLY reason I can imagine for Blizzard making this change. I assume that way too many raid leaders were doing this, and a large number of NEW players were quitting WoW because they were being treated unequally (no gear 4 U, just because U aren’t a veteran). Would YOU stay in a game where you were unable to gear up, until you had played the game for years?
That is not a Blizzard rule (it’s a raid leader rule) and it was hurting retention of new players (without which any MMO dies). So they had to step in and nerf this rule.
Always an interesting arguement, but have you maybe considered that if a guild like this existed it wouldn’t last more than 2 weeks without the members running for the hills?
How can a guild that snubs 90% of its members possibly last for a long time? Oh right, it can’t.
Why should they leave a guild and form their own when they probably already belong to a guild that has used personal loot?
That wouldn’t change the fact that your guild and others like like it that used master loot would gear up so much faster that the raids would be tuned for you, to the detriment of those who did not use master loot.
How was Master Loot any better? At least with personal loot the raid leader and the council of loot can’t dictate whether or not I receive an item.
I understand that Master Loot had its shining moments, but on average it was a contributor to irrational decisions. (Take loot funneling to friends, or even raid trials into account.)
I’ve witnessed both the noble and greedy sides of Master Loot. Unfortunately, more often than not the greedy side takes the cake. There is a problem with that. What would you have them do? No matter which way they stacked the cards the house would have fallen down.
I understand your point, Phetustein, but I’m inclined to side with Blizzard on this particular topic. Obviously, it’s my opinion, but everyone else shared theirs so I thought I’d share mine.
That’s cool that you like personal loot. Nobody is trying to take that away from you, but why not give guilds who don’t like personal loot a choice in what loot method to use?
Remember that we are talking about guild master loot. Nobody can force you to stay in a guild and raid against your will that I’m aware of. Please enlighten me if I’m wrong.
This isn’t true at all actually. There are drawbacks to master loot. I’ve seen multiple bows drop with no hunters in the group, daggers drop with no rogues, priest tier with no priests, etc.
With personal loot, all the loot is usable by someone in the group, but you have no control who it goes to. With master loot you have full control of who the loot goes to, but some pieces might not be usable by anyone.
A higher percentage of the gear is distributed. That’s why you guys want it, not because there is zero waste, but because there is less. And it helps your progression overall compared with those who did not use master loot or had no access to it.
That was one of the main arguments in favor of keeping it, that showed up over and over again in threads after the announcement was made.
In the first few weeks of a new tier personal loot is probably more efficient. Especially if you look at armor distribution. There are 4 leather, 3 plate, 3 cloth, and 2 mail. However, all the armor has the same 25% chance to drop, since all bosses drop the same number of armor types. With ML your leather people will be hurting for drops while your hunters/shamans will gear up super fast, assuming you have a balanced raid team. This doesn’t happen with personal loot.
I personally like Master Loot because it makes raiding feel like raiding for me. Our group kills the boss and the boss has the loot there on him for the group to distribute. Instead of killing the boss and loot randomly appears in your bags or it doesn’t.
Loot doesn’t magically appear in your bags on Personal Loot, though, you still need to loot the boss. Thus, your point is that with Master Loot there are always items on the corpse that every player can see.
All that Master Loot promoted was loot funneling, guild drama, and pointless distribution. What I mean by the last item is when the Master Looter would send loot to players who would disenchant or vendor items. Too many times have I witnessed stuff like that happening, it even happened on mounts when players would destroy mounts after winning rolls because they already had it learned.
Personal Loot has its problems without a doubt, both inside and outside of Legacy mode. Obviously the problem that people have with Personal Loot is its RNG. When, in reality, you had the same RNG (possibly) with Master Loot.
Master Loot:
Did the item drop? Yes/No
Is there anyone else here that would also need the item? Yes/No
Personal Loot:
Did the item drop? Yes/No
I’m not saying that Personal Loot is perfect, it certainly has its problems, but it’s definitely better in a majority of situations. I just wasn’t a fan of competing with more and more players over loot. It was especially tough when we had rotating rosters, or when we were bringing on trials (because we were fair to their time.)
But if you’ve ever pugged, very many times upon joining a larger guild’s raid group, you’d essentially be joining them and it would essentially be “trust me, you’ll get loot” with absolutely no guarantee of that happening. And many times, their guild mates would be prioritized over the pug unless the item wasn’t needed, despite bosses being downed by everyone.
RL and officers of that raid group would also be looking at the pug’s performance in the group and withhold loot based on the pug’s performance. “X is doing less dps than our shadow priest, no loot for him tonight regardless of what s/he says! Too bad!” I had this elitist attitude happen to me, and heard about it often on forums.
Personal loot removes drama and levels the trust issues.
This still happens and is far more efficient with Personal Loot than it ever was with Master Loot.
This still happens too
What does this even mean? If your master looter was distributing loot pointlessly why didn’t you leave??
Your posts are just stories of how you were wronged by Master Loot but looking at your achievements it’s questionable if any of these things ever actually happened.
To say that X, Y, and Z are still happening even under Personal Loot isn’t an argument to return the system to the game.
How are anecdotes not a substantiated form of evidence? Your entire basis of argument for why they should bring it back was an anecdote or a series of anecdotes…
I don’t see how giving guilds a choice on how to distribute loot is a bad thing. If you didn’t like how your guild used ML, then join a PL guild. With M+ and Titanforging now, raids aren’t even the best way to get gear so who cares anyways?
Thus, what you’re saying is that you don’t understand why Blizzard ever took action against the loot system? Ion reiterates on their answer, a bit more in depth, here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/254739285?t=01h05m00s
I’ve seen what Ion said. It is all completely out of touch with the current game.
He says “you have more control over your loot.” You don’t actually since you can’t trade your loot if the game decides it’s an upgrade for you.
He says “some guilds were unfair to trials.” Ok fair point, but have you seen the amount of guilds dying in BFA? Of course Ion’s guild won’t die, but thousands of guilds have and would kill for some good trials. As a guild in BFA you can’t afford to be unfair to trials, most guilds are losing members faster than they can recruit. My guild has had over 80 different raiders since the start of Uldir, if we would have told trials that they wouldn’t get loot for a month, our guild would have died in 2 months.
Ion is completely out of touch here and actually has no clue how an average Mythic guild operates. Again, player choice isn’t s bad thing here.
Sure it is possible, you just reward them differently. You could do something like put ‘Thanks, ‘use name’, for the fish and herbs’ in the guild message of the day.
You are assuming people who do that want extra rewards in the first place. Most times they don’t.
This part is worrisome.
you were having to ‘bribe’ some of your members before to raid ?
Thousands of guilds have died? Even if that’s true, what gives you the ability to say such things? What’s your source?
That clip is from April 2018. I’m sure whatever guilds have disbanded haven’t disbanded simply because Master Loot isn’t a thing any longer. Why would they have stayed together if that was their sole reason? They knew it wasn’t going to come back, and may as well have disbanded at the time of the announcement.
There are still countless guilds raiding despite this change, and still have found ways to tackle split raids. MethodJosh explains their strategy here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7O7VueV6RQ
It is much better, because you have the choice of what loot method you would like to use. In your case, you have the choice to join a guild that uses personal loot. Everyone wins