Well I wouldn’t hold your breath waiting for one with ML.
Given it’s contribution to the collapse of the raiding community, it’s not an insignificant issue, their business intelligence teams are likely tracking that and recognize the problem they’ve caused themselves. They’re still a business and it might be expensive to revert the error, but if the loss of revenue and profit they are experiencing in BfA and the contribution to that from the loss of Master loot is enough to outweight the cost of putting things back, then we may see it. It’ll come down to $s at the end of the day. It’s not as major a negative to them as something like flight, but then nothing in this game has been like that. But Azerite? That’s a bit more on par.
Source?
I don’t share the same opinion that any problems are due to ML as far as any theoretical sub loss goes.
In a later youtube video, Ion offered it’s impact on splits as another reason for its removal. It wasn’t the main reason, but it was offered. The big reasons he offered (IIRC) were: trial abuse, split raids, and a uniform loot system.
Trials abuse - Is patently false… most trials get plenty of loot from farm bosses during their trials. Also… a trial is a 2 way street… You’re trialing for them, but they’re also trialing for you. If a guild tries to abuse you or you see it’s not going to be a good fit… Then tell them so and leave. Find a new guild. I’ve done this. Got in as a trial, they started making racist jokes throughout the run, at the end I told them it wasn’t going to be a good fit and I left. Period.
Split raids - The impact here has made it harder for guilds with less time to optimally gear their raid teams. And it’s had little impact on the top end guilds who were the ones already doing splits. Soooo you didn’t stop the teams already doing splits and just made it harder for the less progressed teams to gear efficiently… That’s like increasing taxes while maintaining loopholes tax cuts for the super rich… All you end up doing is taxing the middle class. Funny how Mythic raiding has been trending downwards in participation. Wonder why that is.
Uniform loot system - There are no words… simply put wtf does this reason even mean. Who gives a crap how many systems are available. If no one was using a system at all fair enough… but that’s not the case with ML… Plenty of people were using it, and plenty of people LIKED using it. This is the dev’s literally telling us that we are enjoying the game wrong and telling us that we should be enjoying the game like this.
Long story short. There reasons are complete and total BS, and if they had any respect for the RPG part of this MMORPG… They’d stop pruning player agency and instead find ways to maximize it. I’m tired of being told how to have fun in this game. I had fun for 10+ years in it using ML for the vast majority of it (and no I didn’t have control of where the loot went). I don’t enjoy using PL. It solidifies the feeling that I’m just non-stop pulling a slot machine lever.
3 Likes
You have access to the Blizzard support ticket system to verify this? Otherwise, you are making up whatever feels good to say.
It means every player in WoW knows what kind of loot results are possible in every scenario. Even the new players.
This means what they stated is correct less people can take advantage of it.
What is their ticket going to say? Yes, I joined a guild that fully explained their loot strategy to me and knowingly joined their run. When they followed their loot strategy, I didn’t receive loot… Please reprimand them?
How does that even make sense. If a guild violates their own loot rules… LEAVE. Period. No questions asked. Boom. Problem solved. You really don’t seem to get that this isn’t a guilds market… This a trials market. No guild that abuses their players survives.
I guess we should just get rid of roles then as well. That way if you join a dungeon, then you already know exactly what’s expected of you. Having to know about tanks, healers, and damage roles is too much for the playerbase so let’s simplify that too.
Or… you can not treat us like we’re 3 months old and let us have a say in how we want to play.
Except… a team giving an upgrade to the person who needs it most is in no way the same thing as a split run. You harmed the people trying to optimize their gearing, while not stopping the harmful action of split raids.
People still split raid… The same people who were doing before in fact…
1 Like
The fact you don’t share the opinion is not surprising, you are not a raider. You have no experience in any of the matter where master loot vs personal loot is concerned.
I don’t have hard evidence, but I’m not claiming that. What I have is anecdotal. But it’s hard to think that anecdotal evidence doesn’t line up with the harder evidence Blizzard is seeing given the extent of it.
On our server, our raiding community has utterly collapsed.
Most of the teams went under had larger numbers of their members complaining about forced personal loot only and how garbage it feels compared to what we had before. The raiding community talks to one another, word gets around. Most of the teams that went under also cited forced personal loot as one of the issues contributing to their attendance problems, and ultimately what snowballed into lack of ability to put together consistent raid teams and then finally to collapse as those who were left and willing to put up with the negative of personal loot didn’t have enough team mates who did.
I’ve said over and over in these threads it’s not the only thing going wrong in BfA. Nor the only thing that is causing the raiding community collapse. Azerite gear certainly had a strong and significant impact on that. That over reliance on RNG layered over RNG gearing with Titanforging and how crappy that makes gearing up feel where you have no real chance to build to a bis set also contributes. But the loss of master loot is not an insignificant problem given what we’ve been experiencing, seeing, and hearing.
Is it enough to make them put it back? That remains to be seen. I am no where confident the losses at the upper end of raiding in heroic and mythic are enough to make them justify spending the resources to revert the change. It may be sad and ultimately just a net negative the community suffers in the long run that never comes back because they can’t ever justify the cost of putting it back right, there just might not be enough players left doing higher end raiding for them to care. If they’re alright with the game just sinking into it’s twilight on auto-pilot as the most dedicated players dwindle away on their bad decisions, then that’s just going to be what it’s going to be. Everything ends eventually.
But if there’s enough monetary incentive for them to correct the mistake, then we will see it.
I’m not holding my breath, no. And maybe it’s one more straw of bad that eventually makes me choose to leave the game entirely before they if ever have enough of that in aggregate to choose to change. But I hold out some hope they’ll see it before it’s too late.
1 Like
The fact that you can run all of a type and gigafunnel gear? Try to do that with Master Loot and you end up with 75% of the pieces going to waste. People legitimately sell full gear runs of BoD and such because it is so easy to loot stack and guarantee a buyer gets a full set.
1 Like
I had a situations in the past that caused me to create tickets. It cost them man hours to address every ticket created. These tickets are easily avoided with PL avoiding any extra man hours.
Blizzard has been removing options for a good while now in the game. They are completely removing power leveling from the game. It was an option to have fun with friends and such since Vanilla.
This doesn’t make much sense in ML scenario. Either way I don’t care about split runs in anyway whatsoever.
Like I said no real source for what you are saying. Go sell some M+ runs then and use it to your advantage.
The source is literally what you can do in the game. If you go into a raid with 20 leather wearers there will ONLY be leather drops. You are able to funnel gear so hard now compared to ML days.
Also, I do sell keys. I have a character on every armor type besides Leather for that exact reason because people are way more likely to buy when you can give them 3-4 pieces of 400+ IL gear.
I don’t think this is what people who want ML back are looking for. If ML were less efficient than PL in this way, all the ML advocates would be crying about how they needed tailored ML so they wouldn’t have wasted gear.
If ML were restored but worked this way, any guild that cared about progression or gear would use PL instead. That would mean basically nobody would use ML. So why reintroduce it? The only reason to use it would be to funnel all loot to a small clique of the master looter’s friends, which is the exact reason even the ML advocates claim not to think legitimate.
Just because something can be done doesn’t mean everyone is doing it.
Great I hope you make some good gold friend.
Explain this situation then. Cause imo… if you make ML a 100% guild requirement, you can literally put an auto-reply for ML tickets: You joined a guild. Leave the guild if you’re unhappy with how they deal with loot. Blizzard will not interfere.
Boom. All ML tickets solved.
That doesn’t mean that it’s right for them to do so? That’s not really a counter argument to my point. I agree they have been and it’s to the detriment of the game (imo).
How does it not make sense? The people who put in the extra effort to do split raids under the ML system… still do split raids under the PL system. It takes them more effort, but they still do it.
The people who didn’t do split raids, but preferred a system that let them get upgrades to where they’re needed, just got screwed in the crossfire.
So for the “To help stop split raiding argument” they gave… They massively failed in this regard. As they didn’t stop split raiding, they just took away options for other players.
1 Like
If a guild is short on gold and wanting to put a 3rd/4th night together for a 60 minute heroic clear for 500k gold it isn’t hard. Most mythic raiding guilds require you to have multiple geared characters ANYWAY.
Also 60 minutes is being generous tbh. Someone in my guild got carried on a priest and it took them an hour for 9/9 with I believe 2 wipes to Jaina at the end.
I have stated many times on the forums that I support ML only in 100% guild runs. Even with this stated, I don’t believe there is a chance in some fiery pit to get ML back. Either way it won’t eliminate 100% of tickets (even if tickets are not valid).
I agree everything they do is not always best for the game.
We don’t have access to any data to confirm anything about the results of their changes. I do feel they are removing most choices from players. I don’t work for Blizzard so I can only speculate here.
This isn’t any different than if ML was still here the guild could still sell that run and funnel whatever they could to purchaser. You know they were selling runs before PL was a thing right?
Except it is different. In ML if you tried to funnel a leather group you would just be sharding a bunch of bows and plate gear because Master Looter meant ALL items on the loot table dropped.
Not for selling runs it doesn’t make a difference. If you are talking about guild progression then yes it is not quite as efficient. I don’t know any guilds that can do all leather runs in raids on my two servers.
Well firstly if you have a fair loot distribution in the first place there’s no point in having a stupid system to track it, I’ve never once been in a guild that had any issue with gear being passed out unfairly.
The only reason I used a system like this my self was when I was hosting pug raids to farm mounts since like firelands, you would basically get participation points for being there every kill and it would give you an advantage when rolling for the mount, so those that only just joined would have less of a chance at getting the mount before someone that’s been there for 10+ kills.
Also if you’re rewarding everyone fairly I understand is fine but if you’re giving gear to people that are sandbagging the guild/raid then it’s not a great system unless you plan on doing normal/heroic raiding all the time. You don’t even need to be in the top world 1000 clearing mythic for that to matter. I mean if you want to stay stagnant that’s fine also but if you plan on making any headway and potentially clear mythic by the end of the expansion with partial nerfs then you should be giving gear to those that show up every day, those that invest time/effort into researching their class/raid boss fights etc. Those that enchant/gem and use consumables to further their guilds/raids progress. Otherwise you’d be better off pugging, although with the introduction of crossrealm mythic raids I’m sure I could keep up with any guild as far as gearing is concerned with the exception of top 50 guild split runs, also it is easier to loot funnel with personal loot than it was with masterloot as you’re guaranteed a piece of loot for your class/armor type, with masterloot you weren’t you could have a full raid of clothies and get plate.
This and my previous posts have been about personal loot being the ONLY reason people disbanded. Everything else you said is pertaining to the expansion which is garbage, it obviously wasn’t just the looting system change. Azerite/PL etc. this entire expansion made people quit, not just the looting system change.