Personal loot isn’t why guilds disbanned, BFA is why guilds disbanned lol
You aren’t getting it. Forced Personal loot is a significant part of why many guilds did disband in BfA.
Wasn’t the only reason. But you add all the terrible decisions they made this xpack, of which forced personal loot only was a significant contributing factor and you get what happened in the past year.
I know at least 4 guilds on my server alone that died that cited forced personal loot only as contributing factor to loss of raid attendance that snowballed into inability to raid and ultimately disbanding. We’re not dumb, you can see clearly what happens when you force personal loot. Teams that lost EPGP lost the ability to incentivize their raiders to show up every raid, even on nights they might not get a drop, and when that incentive went away, players stopped bothering to attend as frequently. It’s a direct cause, and not hard to follow.
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Wowking as intended. Just like faction races.
I’ve used some idiotic reward systems in the past including dkp and ones like the one you mentioned but if it’s that big of a problem change it. But blaming personal loot for guilds disbanding is as equally dumb. The only reason this was brought up was because someone made the assumption that guilds were ONLY disbanding because of PERSONAL LOOT. In that regard I would highly disagree as this expansion has been garbage, I’d rather go back in time and replay WOD instead of this expansion that’s how bad it is. Heck you could even compare WOD to now, people didn’t quit WOD because of personal loot, they quit because it was a trash expansion just like BFA. Obviously personal loot wasn’t in WOD but my point being is if the expansion is garbage that wouldn’t be enough of a reason to quit, it’s the expansion that’s garbage that made people quit.
Loot funneling is easier with Personal Loot than without. You DO realize that guilds in CoS had 14 geared SPriests/Warlocks because of split runs of BoD right?
Let’s go back to Legion Master Looter and try to funnel gear to characters. You bring all your clothies to Antorus. Kill first boss. No cloth. Second boss. One piece. All this leather is useless.
With Personal loot on a split run for cloth you are guaranteed cloth from every drop UNLESS the tank gets rolled for personal loot. Even then that is 2 people to 18 on 4-5 pieces of loot. The chances of it happening consistently are next to none for 9 bosses.
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This one. Tanks are probably the least important people to gear on mythic prog. Were usually last to get tier when it was around. Healers can overcompensate for any extra damage they may take by being 5 IL lower than they should or whatever and extra damage ends bosses sooner (and phases sooner) thus reducing the damage the tank takes anyway.
Even a fight like Grong which is a tank melter is easier with more damage or more healers since you will kill him fast enough you will have an external for all the throws anyway since you end the fight before you run out of them.
3 things have to happen for you to get loot “stolen” from you.
- you don’t notice everyone in the group besides you is in a guild
- you don’t look at your raid frames and see a sack over someone’s name
- you not ONCE right click your name and see that it is set to Master Looter
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There is no valid reason to not have it as an option that I have heard yet. It was a mistake for them to take it out and it is our job to make noise about it until it is put back. However long that takes.
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Yeah, because soooo many guilds can do this!
Why do you think EPGP is stupid?
With EPGP you earn effort points when you show up for your team. Even if you aren’t getting drops, you are earning towards you next one.
It balances out effort and reward across the raid team. The people who get an item most recently are less likely to to receive another until after others have picked items up. The people who put in the most effort on their team are the ones who pick up more items than those who put in significantly less effort.
It’s not a perfect system, but nothing is. But it’s a good system if you care about basic fairness for your team over time.
Would it work for a world first chasing team? No. They want to prioritize pure efficiency in gearing the whole squad over everything else. But if you are a mythic team that’s alright with taking a bit more time to roll through the content, it provides good incentives to keep your raid team showing up and really putting in the effort to conquer the content.
Look this xpack has a lot of issues. Loss of master loot is not the only one. Personal loot is fine for those who want to elect to use it. But it’s not alright for them to have removed Master Loot from the people who elected to use that. But think a bit here, what makes an expansion "garbage’? The things that go into that are the mistakes and errors they made that make the game worse.
Removing tier and going with Azerite? Made the game worse. But so too did the loss of Master Loot. These things aren’t happening in isolation. But to think there’s no impact to the collapsing raiding population because of the loss of Master Loot that most high end teams used and liked more than Personal Loot when both were options… is just sticking your head in the sand.
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This is one of the reasons they went with a unified loot system.
I’m sorry, but are you currently recruiting for your mythic raiding guild? If you’re trying to get a strong player, the last thing you’d do is abuse them… Particularly nowadays when it’s so easy to transfer around as needed. If you’re a skilled player with mythic experience and good logs behind your name… the guilds need you more than you need them… It’s not the other way around…
I am just saying that the “master looter was removed to lessen loot funneling” had the exact opposite outcome.
Source?
There’s levels of worse though. When both personal and master loot were options everyone could pick what fit them best and the players had the agency and option to elect and consent to their system of choice. Forcing people to only play one way is almost always going to be worse than letting people pick what suits them best. That’s basic economic consumer choice theory and why command and control central planning always fails.
If it means so little… then why not have the option for ML? That cuts both ways…
Simple fact of the matter is that some people prefer the ML style, while others prefer the PL style. Every bit of data we have shows a clear split in the community on this. So… why not have options and require a 100% guild run to use ML.
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I think Blizzard has made it pretty clear they don’t agree.
Most of the top guilds run split clears with armor stacking to maximize efficiency. They not only control who gets what drops (through M+ spam and professions), but they also control literally what types of items drop.
It takes a bit more work on the front end, but you can still gear your raid exactly how you did with ML. Long story short, they used a half measure if their goal was to truly stop split runs.
Blizzard disagreed with having flight in the game and realized that asinine stance was a mistake later on after they saw the impact to players and what it was doing to their bottom line.
Blizzard has just recently come out and admitted their mistake in over pruning classes.
Blizzard has also admitted their mistake with Azerite gear.
They aren’t perfect. They make mistakes. This is yet another of them. So, it’s alright to continue to hope they recognize it and correct course in time. That’s why the issue keeps coming up in the forums.
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That wasn’t the goal of PL. Either way not many guilds can do this in the overall picture.