Just to add some background, the reason I’m a proponent of something better than both ML and PL is because on multiple occasions I’ve been burned by handing over loot for months to progress the guild, only for the guild to fall apart or for those I handed loot over to to jump ship, leaving me exiting the tier barely better than I entered it. I’m all for progressing the guild, but that doesn’t stop it from stinging when I get paid back for months of dedication with empty hands. No matter how selfless one is, it’s pretty blatantly unfair if you come out of it all with little more than moldy crumbs.
Sounds like incompetence on your part to me, I give away gear but I know who it’s going to otherwise and know whether or not they’re sticking around. Doesn’t mean the looting system is flawed, it just means your choices were.
Didn’t get loot for a while? Saw people get loot and leave?
Sounds like you are describing PL.
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It wasn’t always my choice to hand it over. Quite often the loot just went straight to priority players. Other times I was told not to bid. Result was the same either way.
Still sounds like it was a you problem, if this was a guild I assume why stay if it was like that lol.
Yeah…I am amazed at how often people apparently stick around in guilds with questionable rules.
It’s obviously not the looting system it was him being too nice when passing on loot, let alone sticking around in a group/guild like that, he just doesn’t know where to put the blame in my opinion. Doesn’t even relate to Masterlooter.
Where do you draw the line on what’s reasonable? It’s so easy to fall in the trap of “being a good guildy” and riding it out.
Oh noes,
I’ve been accused of being an evil pug’er ( I assume you meant that as cut down for some reason ) taking loot from honorable guilds using player loot.
Truth is, in my guild we’re happy to let trials, new players and people pugging walk away with the loot. And we give it to them when we can.
And from a people management perspective, I think we’re much happier with PL as a system. It’s not perfect and it can produce undesirable results from time to time. But when it does people aren’t leaving the raid mad at other people and it’s not causing any guild drama.
I’ve always been in a gm/raidlead/officer position, also I get to know my guildies and usually can tell whether or not they’re going to stick around for the long haul when it comes to giving out gear and getting a good return from them.
As far as giving gear away is concerned though I usually judge the player firstly, if I’ve heard any talk of them leaving they probably won’t be getting much, also whether or not it’s a big loss even if they did. Calculated risk to make it simpler.
Best bet is unless they’ve been in the same guild for more than a year just keep the gear, even if you have it it’ll still be worth more in the long run than taking a risk on some unknown person.
I got through about 82 replies before I couldn’t keep reading this thread. The amount of nonsensical responses to a request for full guild groups and people championing “new players and poor people progressing who are abused by the GM and his / her fascination with greed” is insanity.
Look people. If you join a guild and master looter is being abused, you leave. In all of my years playing this game, that hasn’t happened once to me. Both as a GM, and as someone who wasn’t. No guild which abuses master looter would survive very long. Stop peddling this nonsensical fairy tale. Guilds should have every right to determine how to distribute loot in their own groups. Make it 100% guild groups, I don’t care. But master looter needs to come back.
9 Likes
Yeah some people need to read the whole book instead of the footnotes to understand it.
So because you decided, “eh, I’ll trust them” everyone else should have their options taken away? Once again, that entire issue was a you problem.
h-ttps://imgur.com/a/5npjXk6 why don’t they just say looking for slave with a possibility of us paying you back.
It wasn’t working with the ’ 'thing so remove the - from https
What the actual hell, I’ve ran in ML guilds before and we’ve had a blast with 0 issue, one guild lasting almost a decade.
Why you sitting there trying to pretend you know what others think about things.
The examples being listed on both are extremes that ultimately mean nothing.
Guilds quitting because of PL. Laughable.
Raid leaders quitting because they can’t assign loot. Laughable. If anything it makes leads easier, one less thing to do.
At the end of the day PL is not perfect. But neither was ML. PL is really just the simplest. Nothing that drops is that important.
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Except you’re still not raiding with a guild even though you have your preferred loot method?
Why not?
This just goes to show your extreme ignorance of what has happened, and is still happening to many raiding guilds after ML was removed.
Your ignorance doesn’t equate to truth, it’s just you not having a clue as to what is actually happening.
But it did happen. Guilds didn’t just up and quit over it, no. At least none that I heard of. But it was one of the causes of the raiding community collapse in BfA nonetheless over time.
Loss of ML meant a loss of EPGP, which was a fantastic fair and just system for the teams that used it.
Even on nights you didn’t get a drop you were earning something.
When that incentive went away, attendance problems started to happen, and that snowballed into teams not being able to field enough folks to run mythic, and entire teams died because of it.
It was not the only problem in BfA with gearing. Loss of tier and awful Azerite replacement also had a hand. And so has how meaningless and poor gearing feels with the excessive RNG titanforging system where you literally can never achieve bis based on weight of % without having the effective luck of winning a real lotto.
But to think the loss of ML did not have a large and significant impact is just asinine. Lots of teams fell apart because of it. You are a raider so I know you know this, but Raiders tend to be a community on their server. They know each other and talk, even when not on the same team. Lots of the teams that died on our server, and we’re down to basically a skeleton crew of people still doing any meaningful progression, have stated that loss of ML was a driving factor in what wound up happening to them.
The change has been awful for the raiding community. The only people who really benefitted have been the forum trolls who like to engage in schadenfreude that raiders got shafted, largely because they don’t do the content where it made a difference.
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High turnover rate. Gullible players believing sweet lies.
Why do you think nigerian bank scams keep circulating? Because enough people are gullible enough to fall for them.