Guess what?
If ML were to return for guild raids, and you don’t want to be burned by ML in the future…you absolutely can ensure that it does not happen.
You can have the least bit of personal responsibility, and not join a ML guild.
Every looting system can be shown to have “failed in the past”. Personal Loot sure does. I don’t want to be burnt by personal loot in the future.
I don’t get why people who are trialing for a raid spot feel they are entitled to loot to begin with. I figured it was universally accepted that you were performing for a raid spot, not competing for loot. I think if you quit a team you were trialing for because the main roster got loot instead of you its more a reflection of you and not the raid team. You might not even perform well enough to get on the team but they wasted a reset on bosses the roster that will definitely be there next week could have used loot from? This is why you should save up your bonus rolls if you have advance notice you’ll be trialing.
Most raid teams were actually very giving to their trial members. Most of the time if the team couldn’t use any of the gear off a given boss it was auto assumed the loot was going to you and atleast in raid chat nobody made a fuss about it. If the team researched enough about your logs and assumed you were good enough to join the team but was trialing you because thats their protocol then you had an even more fair shot at loot.
Ive been on many teams and the only time ive been burned by master loot is when i joined a 100% pug run and the master looter looted everything for himself and those runs only lasted one boss at a time as the leader had to reform the group cause everyone left the ninja leader.
Blizzard made a huge mistake getting rid of ML.
Yeah I’ve been in multiple top 50 guilds and I never expected any gear from them although even after taking a small break in wod I was still up to par with gear just pugging so it wasn’t that big of a deal either. Too much work raiding 4+ days a week though.
I still think they should’ve kept ML around in it’s original form but as an option. Obviously the majority would prioritize it over the other loot options but then if you didn’t like that join one that has PL on or make your own group.
ML’s failure was due to humans’ abuse and Blizz can’t address that. The best option is to have ML as an option for those who prefer it.
PL’s failure lies within the algorithm and RNG which can be addressed and fixed.
Classic is coming! That solves most of the issues people have with retail. Just go play Classic if you want ML and no flight and everything else you guys complain about. Enjoy!
Classics going to be a flop, it’s dead content. The only redeeming qualities it had should’ve been merged into live, make gear matter again, slow down the game play, don’t randomly give out a thousand items a day for doing 30 minutes of world quests. Most people won’t last past leveling to 60 let alone waiting months and months for an upgrade from raid. There’s nothing to do outside of dungeons/raids/bgs where most people only play live to do world quests and pet battling.
I fully intend on leveling a rogue just to corpse camp people, it was fun when I did it in vanilla and I can’t wait to see the whining in forums about it in classic.
Those that think classic will be a good game either never experienced it or are going off of the reactions of streamers/youtubers that have been playing the same crap for a year and it’s all nostalgia and a change of pace. Obviously if you play the same thing for a year and they give you another option it’s going to look amazing for a few months, I’m sure I’ll like it for the same amount of time.
It really comes down to who do you think the loot belongs to.
Does everyone that was there to down the boss deserve a chance or roll at the loot?
Does the loot belong to the person running the raid.
Even in the best of situations you could raid for weeks before it became apparent whether the guild was fair and honest about honoring DKP’s or if it was just going to be wage theft.
And while master loot can be useful, the problem is it strongly attracts people that will abuse it because at the end of the day the pragmatic assessment is with master loot, the loot belongs to the raid leader. And how long they can abuse that power is limited only by their competence at being a scam artist.
The only way I would find it acceptable is by secret ballot at the beginning of raid. If 100% agree, fine master loot. If one person doesn’t, you don’t know who and it’s personal loot.
The problem is people making it seem like the abuse of power happened more often than it did. It got taken outta the game over something that was completely blown outta proportion and now we’re stuck with a flawed PL loot system.
Doesn’t make sense to me at least that last part, if you feel uneasy about joining a pug with masterlooter on join one with personal loot. After all they made the group, they decide the loot system and they decide who receives the loot. This all comes back to community and making a name for your self whether you’re a trustworthy person to have masterlooter or not.
I memorized all the people back in wod that were ninja looters but I also knew which groups to join and had the common sense to talk to the raid lead/masterlooter to find out if I even had a chance at a specific item.
Hell most of the time I would just make my own groups, most people would look for me in the premade finder or even add me. I’ve always been in a top guild on my realm, only been in a few top 50 guild over the years but obviously you can’t just take that into consideration and think the loot will be distributed fairly.
Most of the time if I had a buddy that lost a roll, I’d tell them to negotiate with the guy that won it before sending it out just to see if it was as big of an upgrade for them as it was for my buddy. But I never took advantage of the system although this didn’t happen the same way for everyone. I also won’t give you loot if you suck in general, if you’re consistently dying, lacking in dps and not contributing at much as other sometimes, very rarely I’d opt to give it to someone that earned it more.
“Man, these guys don’t want to talk about loot but I’m going to go ahead and stick with the group because I’m a masochist and it will give me a chance to whine about it on the forums later down the road.”
That’s the problem there.
Then join another group or make your own.
I don’t think that’s quite fair. Especially when you apply that if loot was being abused then the clock starts in the termination of your raid team. This was even more impactful in the Mythic raiding scene. Which forced teams to work together if they wanted to achieve a Cutting Edge.
Then let me trade my personal loot if it’s not actually useful for me. Because at time of writing, the game won’t let me give away higher ilvl garbage that will never be used in my hands.
Personal loot is garbage
This please. We don’t need to be babied by Blizz. Let us make a choice if we want to keep an item or trade it to a guildy who will get more out of it. This “we don’t want people to feel pressured to give up loot” attitude is ok for 7 year olds, but this game is rated Teen, please remember that.
I agree that’s a problem (actually a couple of problems) and it gives some insight into the dev’s thinking and reasoning behind the changes and the problems they were trying to solve.
The devs would like for you to be able to trade loot, even put in a system to allow for it. But for some reason you can’t trade the loot if it’s an upgrade.
Why would they do that?
So guilds can’t force people to trade their loot or get kicked as a condition of being there.
The philosophy is, if you were there for the kill, you have an equal chance at the loot, and no one should be able to take or coerce that loot from you.
The problem is most upgrades aren’t upgrades just because they have a higher ilvl than what you currently have.
If I get the trinket from grong which is a 425 trinket, it’s still garbage for my class/spec I’d rather give it away than de it or let it collect dust in my bags, it’s like bis for like 2-3 classes. As far as being forced to trade it away you aren’t going to be unless you’re in a guild, hell mine uses rc loot council even now to decide where the loot goes but a 5% upgrade for someone else is better than a 0% upgrade for me.
Coercion is one reason. And let’s not pretend it doesn’t happen. Loot funneling is the other. This really is not a big enough deal for how often you all complain about it.
Disagree. The amount of guilds that disbanded because ML was taken away make it a bigger deal than you’re painting it as.